Traditional Shotokan Striking in UFC

[cross]

All athletes good enough to be pros are precisely that...exceptions...no matter if you do MT, boxing, whatever....

This is true, but look at the stats. How many people with a shotokan background have been successful in ufc? And how many people with a MT/boxing background have be successful?

If i was choosing a style based on its effectivness in events like ufc, one guy being good at shotokan wouldnt be enough to make me consider training in it.

[ps1]

All athletes good enough to be pros are precisely that...exceptions...no matter if you do MT, boxing, whatever....

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

[juey palancu]

All athletes good enough to be pros are precisely that...exceptions...no matter if you do MT, boxing, whatever....

This is true, but look at the stats. How many people with a shotokan background have been successful in ufc? And how many people with a MT/boxing background have be successful?

If i was choosing a style based on its effectivness in events like ufc, one guy being good at shotokan wouldnt be enough to make me consider training in it.

For me, a parellel quesiton is: How many guys in MT, etc. want to become professionals as opposed to traditional karate practicioners?

For me, based on many years experience with competitive boxing, kickboxing, and traditional karate, the reason we have so far seen many more MT and kickboxers is not related to effectiveness but rather to philosophy about and history of involvement in professional sports.

My prediction is, that as the money to be made and exposure to MMA becomes more widespread, more serious traditional karate practicioners will enter and be successful in MMA (standing part at least) and the MT/boxing myth will be discredited...

[cross]

My prediction is, that as the money to be made and exposure to MMA becomes more widespread, more serious traditional karate practicioners will enter and be successful in MMA (standing part at least) and the MT/boxing myth will be discredited...

Only time will tell...

[bushido_man96]

For me, based on many years experience with competitive boxing, kickboxing, and traditional karate, the reason we have so far seen many more MT and kickboxers is not related to effectiveness but rather to philosophy about and history of involvement in professional sports.

My prediction is, that as the money to be made and exposure to MMA becomes more widespread, more serious traditional karate practicioners will enter and be successful in MMA (standing part at least) and the MT/boxing myth will be discredited...

I am not so sure. A lot of it has to do with the training philosophies. I know that there are some good karatekas out there that are great fighters. However, the training that is done in Muay Thai/boxing gyms is geared more towards the preparation of ring fighting than karate is. They spend their time on padwork, drills, conditioning, sparring strategy, and sparring itself.

I am not going to take anything away from the gentleman that you are speaking of, nor am I going to take anything away from his accomplishments. I think it is great for Shotoakan, and all other 'traditional' arts as well. I also believe that there are several other fighters out there right now that have visible infuences in their fighting styles of a more 'traditonal' background. St. Pierre with TKD, I believe, Liddell's striking (Kenpo??), and so on.

What I think has to happen is that training methods have to be modified in order to prepare oneself for MMA competition. Therefore, many stylists with a 'traditional' background pick up and head for an MMA gym to learn the nuances of the MMA fight, pick up some ground work and clinch work, hit the conditioning, and then can make it into the ring.

What's nice is that, in the end, we can all say that fighting is just fighting. However, I don't think we will ever be able to leave the word 'style' behind.

[juey palancu]

Traditional Karate has bag drills, makiwara drills, moving target drills, applications sessions, shadow fighting, strenghtening sessions, footwork drills, timing drills, distance drills, combinations, cardio, etc. etc.

etc. The tools are there, and many people use them often, very well and very effectively.

GSP did kyokushin karate, I believe.

[juey palancu]

I do agree with bushido, though, that cross-training and fight preparation are essential, however that doesnt detract from doing a traditional art.

For example, I do karate and judo. On the feet, I'm a karateka, on the ground, I'm a judoka. Somewhere in the clinch, I make the transition.

[bushido_man96]

Traditional Karate has bag drills, makiwara drills, moving target drills, applications sessions, shadow fighting, strenghtening sessions, footwork drills, timing drills, distance drills, combinations, cardio, etc. etc.

etc. The tools are there, and many people use them often, very well and very effectively.

I agree that there are a multitude of drills like this in the traditional arts. However, many times, these drills are not the focus of the training. It is often times overshadowed by forms training and self-defense training (which is different from MMA fighting). As I said, I am not trying to take anything away from the fighter you mentioned, or the art of Shotokan. I just feel that most of the Shotokan schools out there, much like the TKD schools, Kenpo schools, etc., don't focus their training on the MMA genre.

GSP did kyokushin karate, I believe.

That could be...I knew he had a traditional background, but couldn't remember which. Thanks for clarifying. Who is the current fighter that claims the TKD background?

I do agree with bushido, though, that cross-training and fight preparation are essential, however that doesnt detract from doing a traditional art.

For example, I do karate and judo. On the feet, I'm a karateka, on the ground, I'm a judoka. Somewhere in the clinch, I make the transition.

I agree with you here, on both points. However, instead of being a Judoka while standing and a Karateka while on the ground, I would probably keep my mind fairly transitional while doing both.

[NightOwl]

Well, Judo seems to have made a decent name for itself in MMA. I agree that the kind of crowd that gets draw to karate usually isn't looking to go to the UFC or anything. Kyokushin might be a bit more MMA oriented, as well as perhaps Sanshou.

[ps1]

Traditional Karate has bag drills, makiwara drills, moving target drills, applications sessions, shadow fighting, strenghtening sessions, footwork drills, timing drills, distance drills, combinations, cardio, etc. etc.

etc. The tools are there, and many people use them often, very well and very effectively.

GSP did kyokushin karate, I believe.

It's not even the drills so much as the sparring training. Most karate schools do not train, and do not believe it's necessary to train, full contact. However, when you transition into MMA, you must train full contact at least part of the time. Additionally, as Bushido already pointed out, the bag drills usually take a back seat to kata/ ippon kumite/ and self defense. As a shotokan stylist myself I think these things are absolutely necessary in training karate. They tend to be useless for training MMA. I'd be willing to bet that, even the fighter in the video doesn't make kata a huge part of his fight preperation, if at all.

I think you'll find the common denominator of all the martial arts that transition well into MMA is that they train their techniques full go on a regular basis. Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, Wrestling ect...(sorry if I left some out) tend to have that in common.