Choking someone all the way out.

[bushido_man96]

I think one of the major drawbacks of law enforcement training is the lack of a continuous self-defense curriculum. It is not practiced that often, and not very many officers get together off-duty to practice what they have learned, unless they are practicing MAs like us.

You're absolutely right. I've trained so many officers who don't know what they're doing. I'm always amazed that somone who puts his/her life in danger every day would take such little interest in the tactics that will help them survive. To each his own I guess.

The thing is that officers have to go through this type of 'certification' with everything that they do regarding their line of work. Let's say they go through a 3 hour class every 6 months for self-defense. They also have to go through these classes for every other thing they do, like DUI testings, drug analyzation training, and the list goes on. They just have so much to do and train, that it can get overwelming.

[Ottman]

You have to be careful with chokes, because even if you let go as soon as a person passes out, there is still a risk of causing brain damage, or even anuerisms. The risk is usually low, but there is no way to determine or control when this type of thing will happen with a choke. Could be the most athletic, in shape person in the world, but the worst could happen at anytime.

It's a tough situation, because we are taught that chokes are a relatively safe and 'humane' way to take care of a violent situation, but since irreparable damage or death can occur so randomly if a person is choked all the way out, we have to be very careful not to let this happen.

In my BJJ class, if a student doesn't tap out during a choke and allows them self to be choked out, they are out of the class. It's just too much liability for the school. It's unfortunate that insurance companies and lawyers can have this much of an impact on MA training, but again, chokes are very dangerous, and it's too unpredictable to control what can happen after someone is choked all the way to unconsciousness. Therefore, I'd suggest that a choke should be taken off before the person passes out in every instance, unless it is an extreme matter of self defense (like if the guys was blatantly trying to kill you.)

[koryustudent]

For liability sake, I suggest you look in learning some basic kappo techniques. They are various methods to revive a person who has been choked out. It is very difficult to unintentionally kill a person from a choke if you are trained properly. When applied correctly, it should be so quick that there isn't a need to leave it on to the point of permanent damage.

That being said, there can be certain mitigating factors like asthma (see the case of P.O. Francis Livoti in the Bronx, but then again he wasn't really trained.)

I always tried to follow the motto better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

[ninjer]

Seriously though, choke holds arent going to accidentally kill someone, that is assuming you know what you're doing.

A choke hold causes unconciousness more so because of the change in blood pressure. Technically speaking, yes its the cutting of the blood supply that causes one to pass out, but they pass out because of the change in blood pressure, not because their brain is lacking oxygen.

You actually have 4 arteries that will carry blood to your brain, and numerous veins that carry blood from there back to your heart. When you choke the caratoids, you're only blocking two, and even then you're still not 100% blocking the blood flow.

To cause any sort of brain damage one would have to hold this choke for a considerably long time. Nervous tissue can survive as long as 10 minutes without oxygen, so for arguments sake, lets say that you have to hold a choke for about 4 minutes to kill someone- that is an obscenely long time. Most people pass out within 3-6 seconds after a well applied chokehold.

They will come back on their own, just leave them be and they'll wake up.

The instances that you hear of where people have killed others with chokes, 99% of the time its a choke that crushes the windpipe. Chokeholds as taught in jiu jitsu and judo are strangles in that they cut off the blood supply and not crush the larynx.

[learning kempo-karate]

Hello, Best thing to do is learn how to revive people from a choke hold. Seek experts on this, but a doctor who knows more on this topic could give you more info? ...have you try SEARCH webs?

Our JUDO Sensi knows how to revive those who past out. We did not learn that part yet. (We are still beginners).

This was mention on a detective show the other night (It takes about 4 minutes to kill someone with a choke). Many times if you choke someone and think they are dead..(may have a small pulse) and can be revive?

The brain need air...and blood to flow...to stay alive...cut it off..could be dangerous...those people who have half-brain ..need not worry....our friends who are forgetful...(Just 2 minutes? ) ....only kidding....Aloha

[koryustudent]

Hello, Best thing to do is learn how to revive people from a choke hold. Seek experts on this, but a doctor who knows more on this topic could give you more info? ...have you try SEARCH webs?

Our JUDO Sensi knows how to revive those who past out. We did not learn that part yet. (We are still beginners).

This was mention on a detective show the other night (It takes about 4 minutes to kill someone with a choke). Many times if you choke someone and think they are dead..(may have a small pulse) and can be revive?

The brain need air...and blood to flow...to stay alive...cut it off..could be dangerous...those people who have half-brain ..need not worry....our friends who are forgetful...(Just 2 minutes? ) ....only kidding....Aloha

What you refer to is called Kappo. It is actually pretty simple. The basic premise of it is that you compress an area of the body and that rushes blood back to the brain. The reality is that in the majority of cases, by the time the person hits the floor, gravity essentially forces blood back to their brain and they start to come to.

The choke that was mentioned hadaka jime or rear naked choke is a very effective choke as when applied correctly not only cuts off air, but it also cuts off blood. You should be able to make a person pass out in around twenty seconds if you hit it right. Unless there is some extraordinary situation like asthma or an embolism, deprivation of oxygen should not cause any damage for twenty seconds. There will probably be some strange gurgling noises made and some drooling, but no permanent damage.

[NightOwl]

I must admit though I'd be probably freaking out if the person didn't come to in oh...about 2 seconds .

[bushido_man96]

Seriously though, choke holds arent going to accidentally kill someone, that is assuming you know what you're doing.

I agree with you here. However, as a Detention Officer, if I choke someone out, I have to deal more with the way it looks to everyone else, and not the effectiveness of the move.

[Marine]

the biggest thing with choking someone out till they black out is knowing when to stop. dont continue the choke after they black out cause then you can kill them or cause serious damage. at my old gym we had a guy choke someone out and they guy had a slight seizure (spelling) cause the choke wasnt released soon enough. he was fine afterwards with the exception of being tired and not remembering how it happened. most of the time ppl will wake up on there own.

[ninjer]

Seriously though, choke holds arent going to accidentally kill someone, that is assuming you know what you're doing.

I agree with you here. However, as a Detention Officer, if I choke someone out, I have to deal more with the way it looks to everyone else, and not the effectiveness of the move.

Agreed, and that comes down to the ignorance of the general public

"Oh my god hes choking him! Hes trying to KILL him!"

when you are in fact applying a very safe technique proven to be so numerous times.

In regards to people having seizures, that happens sometimes as well. Its happened to me and its happened to others I've seen get choked out. The first time you see it happen, chances are it'll scare you. Once you get used to it though it becomes kinda funny- it gives us something to make fun of you for afterwards.