Choking someone all the way out.

[glockmeister]

Last Sunday, I had to put an inmate into a rear naked choke and sqeezed untill he stopped resisting. I did not put him all the way out since this guy was on various medications and I was unsure how they would affect his blood pressure, etc and wasn't sure if I would be putting him in any danger by taking him all the way to uncounsiousness. Would a person normally "come-to" on their own or would they usually need to be revived?

[username8517]

Before I give my two cents, I would like to state that I have been choked out before. Back when I was still new to BJJ. I wanted to see how far I could go and know the effects so I know what I'm doing to those I grappled with. When we all paired up, I went with a partner with significantly more experience than me. This was to help ease my mind that when I started to go out, he would have enough knowledge and experience to recognize it and immediately release the hold.

Well eventually he got me in a rear naked choke and I went to sleep.

I woke up about 20 seconds later and aside from needing to take a break to get over some lightheadness (if that's even a word) I was ready to go again.

However, I think that there are two key factors in determining how long someone will be out if you take a choke all the way:

--Their overall health

--How long you keep the choke locked in after they go out

I believe that a person in average health or better should be able to recover from a chokeout after a few second with no need for any revival techniques provided the choke was not malicious. Can they be in danger if you take them all the way--yes. And can revival techniques potentially bring them out of it--yes. However, how long they are out and what their body will go through is primarily going to be based on the two points above; that will determine how much danger someone will be in. And since you cannot tell how healthy someone is by looking at them the vast majority of the time, you really only have control over one aspect of it. This is why I would never recommend taking a choke all the way to begin with unless it is an absolute necessity.

[NightOwl]

I think you did the right thing by playing it safe. I remember reading a story about a bouncer who accidentally killed someone he had in a choke hold...bad news.

[glockmeister]

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=15916794&an=0&page=0#Post15916794

Here is the full story of what happened I posted on another forum. Sorry, just didn't wanna re-type the entire post again.

[bushido_man96]

This is very interesting. I have never had the experience myself. I did have an instructor tell me about a guy he choked out in a fight, and he went out completely. He came to ok, but I think he had a headache when he awoke.

I don't know if you could just shake the awake, or if you would have to use smelling salts, or just wait until they wake up.

[ps1]

They usually come around on their own. But Bearich is correct. If their health is poor it could be enough to kill em. That's why most correctional officers/ police officers aren't allowed to utilize lateral vascular restraint or chokes unless lethal force is authorized in the situation. It just gets messy when an officer is seen on someone's back choking them until they die. We know it's usually a harmless technique, but to the layman it looks extremely barbaric.

[lordtariel]

I've always wondered about this. I've gone as far as to have my vision dim but I've never been all the way out before.

[bushido_man96]

They usually come around on their own. But Bearich is correct. If their health is poor it could be enough to kill em. That's why most correctional officers/ police officers aren't allowed to utilize lateral vascular restraint or chokes unless lethal force is authorized in the situation. It just gets messy when an officer is seen on someone's back choking them until they die. We know it's usually a harmless technique, but to the layman it looks extremely barbaric.

I think one of the major drawbacks of law enforcement training is the lack of a continuous self-defense curriculum. It is not practiced that often, and not very many officers get together off-duty to practice what they have learned, unless they are practicing MAs like us. What ends up happening is that they will fall back on what they know best, which may work, whether it is what the public or law offices perceive as "approved tactics."

[ps1]

I think one of the major drawbacks of law enforcement training is the lack of a continuous self-defense curriculum. It is not practiced that often, and not very many officers get together off-duty to practice what they have learned, unless they are practicing MAs like us.

You're absolutely right. I've trained so many officers who don't know what they're doing. I'm always amazed that somone who puts his/her life in danger every day would take such little interest in the tactics that will help them survive. To each his own I guess.

[glockmeister]

I agree. and that's one of the things we were never trained in was chokes for example. I know from BJJ that chokes are effective and in this case I fell back on it when the opportunity presented itself. Many times when I have had to get physical on duty I found myself falling back on my training that I have recieved OUTSIDE of my DOC training. Various takedowns and positioning such as knee on belly position, arms locks, etc. I have learned in my martial arts training.

As to how we were trained by the department itself, well, that leaves a lot to be desired, mainly because of lack of skilled self defense instructors and the administrations reluctance to spend money and also due to fear of lawsuits. We get the minimum required training and little else, which isn't much.