Male VS Female sparring matches-PLEASE advise

[DWx]

In general, I don't think males and females should be sparring anyways. I don't think any novice male should ever spar against a female that is better them him, most especially.

The only problem that I have with this concept is that females are more likely to be attacked by bigger, stronger males. By holding back too much with them in training, you do them a disservice. I am not saying that they should be mauled, either. However, they need to experience what it is like to deal with greater strength and speed at times.

I second that. All the time I've trained in MAs I have sparred adult men, even when I was a lot younger. Being able to hold my own against a 6ft 200lb man has done wonders for my training, not just with regards to self defense. For a start I have to be cleverer about how I spar as speed and strength won't help me. I also have a lot more confidence on the street already knowing what it feels like to fight a grown man and how to cope with it compared to someone my size.

[BMW]

In general, I don't think males and females should be sparring anyways. I don't think any novice male should ever spar against a female that is better them [than] him, most especially.

The only problem that I have with this concept is that females are more likely to be attacked by bigger, stronger males. By holding back too much with them in training, you do them a disservice. I am not saying that they should be mauled, either. However, they need to experience what it is like to deal with greater strength and speed at times.

I second that. All the time I've trained in MAs I have sparred adult men, even when I was a lot younger. Being able to hold my own against a 6ft 200lb man has done wonders for my training, not just with regards to self defense. For a start I have to be cleverer about how I spar as speed and strength won't help me. I also have a lot more confidence on the street already knowing what it feels like to fight a grown man and how to cope with it compared to someone my size.

I understand what you both are saying. I was thinking more a long the lines that a male novice fighter should never spar with a female that is better than him because it can damage his ego.

There are cocky males that need to have their egos taken down a few notches. However, there are less confident males in their physical abilities (which culturally automatically crosses over into "masculine" concepts), and for a novice like this to be pummeled by a female (or even another male) can be "to much" to soon, and the emotional or psychological toll, especially if it is done before others, can make that novice sink even more inward. He may become what they call "glove shy." He may even stop training.

I can spar a woman even if she is better than me primarily because my ego is secure enough for something like that even if I got pummeled. But I would not put my shy 10 year old nephew who has never spared, against a young female whom I knew was a much better fighter than him. I'm trying to build his confidence to believe he can stand a fighting chance against much more aggressive or larger boys than him. If I allow him to get publicly beaten by a girl he would be crushed. And by rule of thumb, it takes much longer to heal from an emotional wound than it does a physical wound.

Most men - many "couch potatoes" - no matter how physically weak they are, will repeat the standard rhetoric that a man should not hit a woman. Ok, by rule of thumb this true, but whether most men want to acknowledge it or not, you do have some teenage girls or adult women who can "clean your clock." I don't think 99% of women can beat me. But this is partly due to me being pretty aggressive and in decent physical strength myself.

So for me, females should spar females, at least at the novice level.

[bushido_man96]

I understand your points. They do have merit, especially in the early stages of training for some people.

[mmljpp]

my one instructor told me fight the same against a female as you would a male

[bushido_man96]

my one instructor told me fight the same against a female as you would a male

This wasn't the same sentiment that you shared in the self-defense situation against the female attacker.

[ShoriKid]

Well, thankfully this thing is six pages long. I'm about 5 shades less ticked off by it having had time to chill a bit as I read the replies.

I'll start by assuming the OP is fairly young, and this is their first time training. I'm making those leaps due to the way the instructort treated you in response to the female's reaction. I'll make another leap and assume the same things about the girl involved in this. That she's both young, and this is her first training experience. Hence, her reaction to being hit in the chest.

Now, I hope Jkoko, you weren't targeting her chest in the effort to break her down, just hitting an open target. If it's a legal target on the guys and the instructor didn't tell you differently, you were prefectly justified to hit her there if she wasn't defending properly. All of that depends on the contact and target rules of your dojo. They shouldn't be any different for sex. Skill level perhaps, but not a different set of rules for each of them if they are going to mix things up boys vs. girls. Having lower belts leave the head alone, or not do leg kicks until they have a bit more control is fine for safety reasons. A lot of yellow belts think they are using control when they are hitting almost full force, or at least a lot mor force than they thought. Thus, the justification for different targets by grades/experience.

Targeting of shots, and the defense of people will change with the rules. If the head isn't a legal target for hand strikes and limited from certain kicks, a lot of people will carry their hands low knowing the head isn't in danger. If the females in class know they can pull the 'don't hit in the chest' card, they may end up dropping the hands to a low defensive shell over the lower ribs/stomach area. Basically, they are denying you any legal targets that won't get you in trouble. Not saying this is what happens, but I've seen it in schools before. I fought a brown belt a few months back at a school I was invited to who didn't do a good job of defending her face because it wasn't open to hand strikes. Sides of the head yes, but not the 'face mask' area. I didn't hit her intentionally, and apologied for the strike, but I caught her in the jaw with a straight right when she did the standing equivalent of turtling up over the body. She was shocked and turned to the instructor, his warning was to protect her head. I was warned to watch my contact of course, which I deserved. She had adjusted her defense to fit the rules instead of keeping a solid posture.

Now what really got me fired up was the reaction of both the girl and the instructor's reaction to her. She's been around enough to know that in sparring you get hit. It your drilling her in a legal target, with permitted force, she was totally in the wrong. Are you going full out in a light contact match? If so, your in the wrong. If your in permitted levels of contact, she's taking advantage. She could have backed off and asked you to drop the contact level if that was the problem. Instead, she makes a statement clearly designed to gain the attention and sympathy of everyone there. Yes, I'm assigning some motive here, but I can't see a girl in this day and age not knowing the kind of reaction she was going to get from using the "my private place" phrase. She instantly put the instructor on the defensive. She should have been questioned about what was going on. If the instructor wasn't watching closely enough to see what was happening, senior students should have been asked if they were conducting sparring, ie. gotten both sides of the story. If it was intentional, as I keep saying, your in the wrong and getting dressed down was fine. If you were just sparring, she gets a talking to from the instructor. She gets the 'private talk' about class conduct, and if he's worried about lawsuits, takes a senior female as a witness.

If she had so much trouble being hit in the chest, time for her to pony up the cash for protective gear. If I'm being hit in the grion and it hurts, I buy the protective gear. Here's what she can buy to avoid this trouble in the future.

http://www.awma.com/index.cfm/action/productdetail/product_id/11313.htm

Now what rips me the most is the instructor's reaction. He drills you into the floor for what, by your telling at least, was a non-malicious incident in class. He rips you in private as well. This leads back to my assumption that your either young, inexperienced in the martial arts, or both. I doubt seriously he would have pulled the same stunt on any student over 20 years old or with more than say a year's worth of training. Not for something as you've presented it here. If he's scared of litigation, he's in the wrong business unless he's going to segrigate the classes in order to avoid this sort of trouble. I hate the constant threat of lawsuits, and the reaction it breeds. Everyone training should always remember that this is a contact sport/training.

So, other than recommending going to another dojo, and if that, clearing what the sparring rules are between both sexes, I have a few recommendations. Like the others have said, stay away from the chest. If your rules allow head contact, I'd vary between body and head in rapid succession. If the legs are open, I'd work those as well. If your restricted to torso only targets and that girl is going to cry foul every time she fights with a guy and gets hit high in the body, refuse to spar with her. Heck, I'd refuse to spar with her anyway at this point. The instructor puts you up against her, tell him no. Politely, but tell him no. He asks why, or tries to dress you down for it, tell him why. Tell him your not going to open yourself up to abuse from her or him. Let him know you'll fight anyone else, or her as long as she knows the ground rules for sparring and so do you. But, your not putting yourself out there to be set up again.

Fighting girls in general, fight them just like you would anyone else of the similar build, skill and a physical characteristics. Long limbed and fast, fight them just the same as a guy. Shorter and more agressive, handling them just like a guy. Don't pull back from them any more than you would anyone of similar skill level. Your doing them a huge diservice. If they train with guys always pulling back, they are being cheated and lulled into a false sense of security and skill. May as well give them their money back, because your not letting them reap the full benefit of sparring and trying to learn a fighting skill. A skill, as others have said, that will most likely be employed against males who will hold physical advantages in most cases(Predators, regardless of how many legs they have, will target those they preceive to be weaker. A smaller woman is a target more than an equally sized man. Don't want people thinking I don't believe woman to be capable and tough, just stating the psychological frame work most assaults come from).

[pittbullJudoka]

I fought a brown belt a few months back at a school I was invited to who didn't do a good job of defending her face because it wasn't open to hand strikes. Sides of the head yes, but not the 'face mask' area. I didn't hit her intentionally, and apologied for the strike, but I caught her in the jaw with a straight right when she did the standing equivalent of turtling up over the body. She was shocked and turned to the instructor, his warning was to protect her head. I was warned to watch my contact of course, which I deserved.

You did crack her due to going back your normal fighting routine. But what did her instructor tell her after warning you? Keep your hands up these guys fight different than we do. Also in the evening class he told her that happens when you drop your hands when face mask is legal target.

Anyway I agree with you on this one. I could not see a reason an instructor flipping out like that. If he wanted to discuss the situation it should been done in a calm private session after class.

[akedm]

Well I'd like to see the "dance" two girls like this one would do if they were to fight each other.

[JusticeZero]

Last time I saw something of the sort, it was... infuriating, to say the least. Leaning back, lightly touching the opponent and trading more apologies than techniques.. ugh.

Of course, others have encountered people of that variety who turned out to be hardcore avid groin shot hunters and dirty trick specialists.

[ninjanurse]

Did somebody say ego....? Men, get over it and spar with us! I choose to enter the ring knowing full well the risks and benefits...and I will take advantage of any hesitation on my opponents part (male or female). I f you get "beat" then back to the drawing board!

Thanks for resurrecting this thread akedm...I just had to get this off my chest ! I feel better now!!!