Circular vs. Linear styles

[Kajukenbopr]

I find it a little worrying that guy training in wing chun would say that a pak sau/slap hand defends very little, especially considering that it is one of the core movements in the style. The fact that it can be used across the centre in both directions, with a short bridge or a long bridge, inside gate and outside gate, above and below bridge, it can be used to press and it can be used to cover and to top it off, be performed without having to move your elbow from a defensive position says a lot about what it can do. When I was training in my wing chun, one of the things that I learnt is that pak sau can even be performed without having to even move your arm. Pak sau as a technique is ranked second only to the tan sau in terms of just how much it can cover without having to adjust. If you want to learn how to fight, pak sau, tan sau and punch is all you need.

thank u for explaining

[Justin Treadaway]

I'm not sure I agree. Circular styles involve more jumps, turns, and circular limb motion for strikes and defenses. Kung fu is an example.

I think some of these circular styles developed as they did because of what I see as a major difference in styles: whether they are designed to defeat a single or multiple opponents. In my opinion, linear styles are more geared toward a single opponent, whereas circular styles are more easily adapted to fighting multiple opponents.

However, most street fights I've seen were using linear styles regardless of the number of opponents. Maybe my theory is only a theory.

Have you ever seen a real kung fu practitioner in combat, not tournament? We don't do jumping spin kick and stuff, most of our kicks will be to knees and groin.... Also circular is our deflections not our punches, almost all of our punches are linear, you have to realize kung fu is both hard and soft, circular and linear, internal and external , thats why there is so much focus on yin yang. It kills me on peoples perception of kung fu. Also the longer and better you get the shorter the circular deflections get, you want your opponent to barley miss you so he fully commits, they are deflections and are a heck of lot faster than a typical block, because when we deflect we barely even touch the punch its about footwork and never interrupt the natural flow of things.

[ps1]

I'm not sure I agree. Circular styles involve more jumps, turns, and circular limb motion for strikes and defenses. Kung fu is an example.

I think some of these circular styles developed as they did because of what I see as a major difference in styles: whether they are designed to defeat a single or multiple opponents. In my opinion, linear styles are more geared toward a single opponent, whereas circular styles are more easily adapted to fighting multiple opponents.

However, most street fights I've seen were using linear styles regardless of the number of opponents. Maybe my theory is only a theory.

Have you ever seen a real kung fu practitioner in combat, not tournament? We don't do jumping spin kick and stuff, most of our kicks will be to knees and groin.... Also circular is our deflections not our punches, almost all of our punches are linear, you have to realize kung fu is both hard and soft, circular and linear, internal and external , thats why there is so much focus on yin yang. It kills me on peoples perception of kung fu. Also the longer and better you get the shorter the circular deflections get, you want your opponent to barley miss you so he fully commits, they are deflections and are a heck of lot faster than a typical block, because when we deflect we barely even touch the punch its about footwork and never interrupt the natural flow of things.

Well put.

[DasZab]

I'm pretty sure someone has already said this, but since I can't find it I'll just say it again for fun.

I believe that you have both advantages and disadvantages using either linear or circular movements in martial arts, according to your personal preference. I, myself, use mostly linear movements, as my first experience in martial arts was training in Shorei Kempo (a lot like Shotokan for those of you who haven't heard of it). I find linear movements to be fast, hard, and have a certain 'snap' to them that work for me, but I do admit that it has it's weaknesses. It really does just depend on personal preference, in my humble opinion.

[WudangDragon]

[quote name="Justin Treadaway

Have you ever seen a real kung fu practitioner in combat' date=' not tournament? We don't do jumping spin kick and stuff, most of our kicks will be to knees and groin.... Also circular is our deflections not our punches, almost all of our punches are linear, you have to realize kung fu is both hard and soft, circular and linear, internal and external , thats why there is so much focus on yin yang. It kills me on peoples perception of kung fu. Also the longer and better you get the shorter the circular deflections get, you want your opponent to barley miss you so he fully commits, they are deflections and are a heck of lot faster than a typical block, because when we deflect we barely even touch the punch its about footwork and never interrupt the natural flow of things.[/quote]

Mr. Treadaway, in context of kung fu, puts it perfectly.

[SBN Doug]

Have you ever seen a real kung fu practitioner in combat, not tournament? We don't do jumping spin kick and stuff, most of our kicks will be to knees and groin.... Also circular is our deflections not our punches, almost all of our punches are linear, you have to realize kung fu is both hard and soft, circular and linear, internal and external , thats why there is so much focus on yin yang. It kills me on peoples perception of kung fu. Also the longer and better you get the shorter the circular deflections get, you want your opponent to barley miss you so he fully commits, they are deflections and are a heck of lot faster than a typical block, because when we deflect we barely even touch the punch its about footwork and never interrupt the natural flow of things.

This is much the same in Kuk Sool Won. As a matter of fact, I have heard many people say they see a lot of kung fu influence in KSW. We train in soft deflections of strikes into near misses, so we are immediately in close for a counter. Most of our strikes are linear, but we spend a very high percentage of training in standing grappling techniques.

Not to split off into the multiple attacker piece again, but we typically don't start training in defense of multiple attackers until after black belt level (if not second degree).

As to the definition, I always generalized linear (or hard) to be karate and TKD type arts, and circular (or soft) to be Aikido & Judo type arts. I never really saw one as having an advantage over the other. Mainly (like someone else said) whichever fits the person best.

[wingedMonkey]

hehe, this thread reminds me of two forms in ATA TKD that i think are interesting, I believe it is the 2nd and 3rd degree forms, the 2nd is very linear and hard, while the 3rd degree black belt form is based on kung fu and is really circular and smooth in transitions.

[bushido_man96]

hehe, this thread reminds me of two forms in ATA TKD that i think are interesting, I believe it is the 2nd and 3rd degree forms, the 2nd is very linear and hard, while the 3rd degree black belt form is based on kung fu and is really circular and smooth in transitions.

What aspects of the 3rd degree form make you think of Kung fu, just out of curiosity? The 2nd degree forms has a good share of slow movements in it, along with some circular blocks, and a butterfly cresent kick, giving it some chunks of circular movement.

[wingedMonkey]

hmm, it might be the first and second degree form i'm thinking about. Like i said, there are two forms i know where one is really stiff and hard, and the other is super circular with lots of circular blocks and hits, basically are master told us of how our Eternal Grandmaster based one on kung fu.

[ps1]

Ok, this is off thread but I need to know. What is an Eternal Grand Master?