Jr. Black Belts

[bbk2132]

Some karate-ka seem to forget how "karate" came about. Anko (h) Itosu created a syllabus designed for children to be introduced into school systems. This is what is often refered to as PE Karate. This syllabus (or something very simliar) was introduced into the Japanese schooling system for children. What they were taught was watered down "te". Punching to the chin became punching to the stomach. Groin kicks became kicks to the stomach. Knife handed blocks became closed fisted blocks, etc...

When you sit down and think about it, the karate that we practise today wouldn't have survived if it weren't for the children of Okinawa and Japan.

Food for thought?

Well that is a valid point. In japan, child blackbelts aren't out of the ordinary at all, but it is in fact 'watered down', and i am sure that most of those kids couldn't realistically defend themselves in a real situation. However, I do believe my style would have survived without the PE Karate simply because our organization has exsited for a very long time and carried on the tradition of my style.

[DisgruntledGirl]

Well, I figured I'd add my own lil bit of ignorance to the mix (I've only be doing any type of MA for a lil less than 5 months)

But many here mention the "respect" that the 12 year old shodan should have when competing... and I agree, to a point. But in a competition setting (which I have never been in btw) I would think that it should also boil down to "fairness" for both competitors.

You have on the one hand the fact that the girl was 12 years old so "probably" smaller than any 18+ adult she would face. A dissadvantage some might say, which might very well be the main reason why she was put with the kids, whether she could whoop the adults or not she was judged beforehand to try to make it "fair" for her (this obviously was not needed in her case)

But then you have the adults. Oddly enough many adults might be rather intimidated by a little 12 year old girl, blackbelt or not, and might initially go way too easy on her so as not to hurt her (probably) small little body, and by the time they realise they do not have to go "easy" on her, they would have already lost.

Also there is always the fact that a trained blackbelt 12 year old will *usually* always be lighter on their feet, more agile ane more flexible than most 20+ year old martial artists. Its just the advantage of youth. Is this also a fair advantage for the child to have over the adult fighter? Possibly, but its not my place to judge that.

So while I do think it worked out in the best for the girl, I completely understand the compentitions position in puting her with the kids initially. They allowed her to fight with the adults after she complained but at least that way it put it in her court to decide if she really wanted to. They were smart IMO

just my $.02

[YoungMan]

I respect junior black belts as senior to the rest of the children, but not as equals to the adult black belts. A junior black belt who out ranks an adult has to line up first. However, rank being equal, the adults line up first.

[ipscshooter]

I respect junior black belts as senior to the rest of the children, but not as equals to the adult black belts. A junior black belt who out ranks an adult has to line up first. However, rank being equal, the adults line up first.

Our school is the same way in how we line up in class. However, regardless of the "order" in which you line up, everyone is expected to be treated with respect in accordance with their rank. You say you respect junior BB's as senior to the rest of the children, but not as equals to adults. Do you respect them as seniors to adult red belts? I have an extraordinary amount of respect for the juniors who have earned black belts at our school. They often amaze me with the speed of their techniques... I've caught quite a good number spinning heel kicks to the ear from one of our juniors...

We had a number of young black belts while I was training. Most earned them at around 14-16 years of age. One young man earned his 1st degree at 11, and his 2nd degree at age 15. My son was the youngest ever to receive one in the 25+ years our instructor has been teaching. He earned his at 10 1/2. I agree with those who suggest that the black belt is symbolic of completing the school's curriculum, and do not believe that it should be withheld simply based on size. I watched the videos on the first page of this thread of an 11 year old's black belt testing, and he performed quite well. Testing requirements seemed somewhat similar to our school, except that our juniors only have to do three breaks at the black belt test. But, they must perform their kicking breaks using two boards rather than one. My son was performing most of the breaks shown in that video by the time he was an 8 year old green belt.

[bushido_man96]

I think that respect is general across the board. I respect my white belt kids as much as any 4th degree adult. I think that is the way it should be.

[marie curie]

Jr. BB's are very different from style to style. I've seen some that are equals to Black belts, but most (and the reason in most systems for the Jr. Black Belt rank) have had BB level skill in as much as his kicks are great or her speed is impressive, but the maturity that goes along with a true BB is lacking- not at the fault of the practitioner, but just as a function of his/her age.

[NY_Karatedork]

I think Jr. Black Belts are very impressive, they enjoy their sport enough to where they are recognized for their skill and some sensei's will allow them to teach other kids as well and it can keep them coming back and learning more or even want to learn other styles of martial arts. I have a saying for things like this which goes "They have opened the door to their journey and now the second part of the journey is beginning.

[ninjanurse]

I think that respect is general across the board. I respect my white belt kids as much as any 4th degree adult. I think that is the way it should be.

Nice.