Jr. Black Belts

[lordtariel]

I don't have a problem with junior black belts, we have quite a few in our club. What does bother me is when they start acting the goat and being silly in the dojo, having a black belt means setting a good example, but kids are kids and they will act the goat occasionally. So if they are behaving lol i will show them respect, but like Brian said earlier i try to show respect regardless of rank

If that happened in our dojo they won't keep their black belt for long.

[Cheradenine]

I think that a junior that has attained shodan ranking has demonstrated their knowledge of the basic syllabus, as with any black belt. They should come to realize that it is just a stepping stone in their training career, and that now is the time to get serious about it. If a child displays the discipline within the class of a senior dan-grade, it could well be time for them to step up and show that they are infact serious about the martial art, where other kids are concentrating on sports, making the team etc..

People say 'that kid may be a Black Belt but out in the street I could smash him' - the point is that child should have the confidence and awareness to act accordingly, avoid confrontations and realise that its not all point-sparring out in the real world - just as adults should. Whether or not egos get the better of the individual is the difference;

"One, to guard against impetuous courage"

But, a Shodan testing is also a step up from the previous gradings, in that the mental and physical requirements are alot more demanding, regardless of age.

[jaymac]

I think a person should be individually judged when it comes to shodan ranking. I have seen some really mature 15 year olds who are deserving of rank, and I have seen some really immature 50 year olds who are not. If everyone has posted once or twice in this KF and (I know many of you have) that a belt is just a piece of material, or it just holds up your pants, then why do the answers change for this type of question. I think the individual in question acted very mature for her age. Why should she compete in a lower ranking class because she is younger. That is not fair to those students competing who are not as experienced. My advice to her would be to look at the divisions of a tournament ahead of time to see how she will be placed in a catagory. All tournaments have flyers and alot are now online so you can get an idea of what the tournament will be like before you actually get there and pay money to compete.

[AngelaG]

I think that a junior that has attained shodan ranking has demonstrated their knowledge of the basic syllabus, as with any black belt. They should come to realize that it is just a stepping stone in their training career, and that now is the time to get serious about it. If a child displays the discipline within the class of a senior dan-grade, it could well be time for them to step up and show that they are infact serious about the martial art, where other kids are concentrating on sports, making the team etc..

People say 'that kid may be a Black Belt but out in the street I could smash him' - the point is that child should have the confidence and awareness to act accordingly, avoid confrontations and realise that its not all point-sparring out in the real world - just as adults should. Whether or not egos get the better of the individual is the difference;

"One, to guard against impetuous courage"

But, a Shodan testing is also a step up from the previous gradings, in that the mental and physical requirements are alot more demanding, regardless of age.

Very good post.

We believe within my group that Shodan is competant beginner. I think there are many children within the martial arts that are able to take that step.

[jaymac]

We believe within my group that Shodan is competant beginner. I think there are many children within the martial arts that are able to take that step.

Well said. Shodan is the beginning.

[Soo Min]

It all depends on what your definition of black belt is. If you believe that a black belt means you can beat most people in the street, many people I know (men, women, children) should not be a black belt. At my school, which focuses less on self-defense and more on technique and kicking, a black belt just means you have mastered a certain amount of material and display certain traits (discipline, courage, patience etc).

As an underage black belt, however, I did receive less respect at my school purely because of my age. In some things others took seniority just because they were older, and I wasn't eligible for certain promotions. Because this was sort of the way things always were and the way things are out in the real world, I didn't think much of it.

[bushido_man96]

...If everyone has posted once or twice in this KF and (I know many of you have) that a belt is just a piece of material, or it just holds up your pants, then why do the answers change for this type of question.

This is a very good point. It is kind of a double standard in the martial arts.

[Rick_72]

I always find it funny when people bring up size, strength, and fighting ability (meaning fighting child vs adult) when talking about child black belts.

There is absolutely no reason to judge whether or not someone deserves a belt based upon those requirements. I've met, and sparred with plenty of black belts senior to me, whom I've beaten....some easily. I'm an athletic, 6' 1", 185 lbs male. Its only natural that using the training I've been given that someone that doesn't match up with me physically is going to be at a disadvantage when attempting to execute their techinique's on me.

A belt is earned by knowledge of the system, and the mental capacity to weild that knowledge.

The size and age of the student really has nothing to do with it.

The respect issue is pretty easy too. I'm a 34 year old Shodan, should I not show respect to a 24 year old Sandan who's been training 3 times as long as I simply because they were born a full decade after I was? Respect is shown to our instructors because of the time and sweat they've dedicated to learning the things that we want to know, and then bascially putting their training on hold to teach us (only one of our instructor's is a paid employee of the school, and she teach's 4-5 class's a day from 3-8pm). The reason I'm lumping all black belts into the instructor catagory, is because all of our black belts must teach, its part of our syllabus.

My son has his junior Shodan, and I'm proud to say he's the youngest ever bestowed that rank in our school.

I've been to Okinawa, and I saw plenty of young kids running around with black belts wrapped around their waist's. Do our kids not warrant the same opportunity because their not Japanese? I mean plenty of our schools are training at the same level as theirs aren't they?

Edited January 8, 2007 by Rick_72

[NightOwl]

...If everyone has posted once or twice in this KF and (I know many of you have) that a belt is just a piece of material, or it just holds up your pants, then why do the answers change for this type of question.

This is a very good point. It is kind of a double standard in the martial arts.

I guess it is because a belt means so many things to so many people. Is it supposed to show knowledge gained? Skill in combat? Time and effort spent? A combination of those?

[username8517]

I'm on the fence about junior black belts. In some cases they are well warrented for quality students who have proven themselves. And then there are those that just received the rank because they paid for the testing. But I guess the same could be said about all ranks, so who knows. . .

If a student is able to demonstrate a high knowledge, skill, and technique of what should be a black belt, then I have no problem with them possessing a junior black belt rank. I don't neccessarily belive a junior black belt needs to be able to fend off a full sized adult as much as someone their own size--which is who'll they'll likely encounter problems from to begin with.