Jr. Black Belts

[bushido_man96]

...If everyone has posted once or twice in this KF and (I know many of you have) that a belt is just a piece of material, or it just holds up your pants, then why do the answers change for this type of question.

This is a very good point. It is kind of a double standard in the martial arts.

I guess it is because a belt means so many things to so many people. Is it supposed to show knowledge gained? Skill in combat? Time and effort spent? A combination of those?

Those are good questions. Some of the answers should hold for most arts, regardless of what their philosophies and methodologies are.

In our school, if a lower ranked student asks you for help on something, as far as knowledge goes, you should be well prepared to help them. For the most part, this is limited to material like forms, etc. Having a colored belt try to teach another how to do a new technique is not the same, and they should not be held to that standard, until they are closer to the black belt level. However, there are always exceptions. Some have a knack for teaching; others have to learn it.

[bushido_man96]

I always find it funny when people bring up size, strength, and fighting ability (meaning fighting child vs adult) when talking about child black belts.

There is absolutely no reason to judge whether or not someone deserves a belt based upon those requirements. I've met, and sparred with plenty of black belts senior to me, whom I've beaten....some easily. I'm an athletic, 6' 1", 185 lbs male. Its only natural that using the training I've been given that someone that doesn't match up with me physically is going to be at a disadvantage when attempting to execute their techinique's on me.

I agree with you here, for the most part. There should be some level of technical proficiency that should be observed at each level. I don't mean that everyone should be able to run 5 miles, and then spar 14 people, though. Someone may not be able to do a head level side kick. However, what I care about is that they can do a knee level side kick the right way.

I am not an athlete by any stretch of the imagination. However, I know athletes who coast on their abilities, and I know individuals that don't possess a drop of raw talent, but they work their tails' off. In my book, that makes a difference.

A belt is earned by knowledge of the system, and the mental capacity to weild that knowledge.

The size and age of the student really has nothing to do with it.

I like the way you state your thoughts, here. I have made the analogy before of professional football coaches. Not many of them could go out and play with the pros they coach. Actually, many of them have not had pro careers, either. However, they do have the knowledge and the ability to teach others, and help them understand.

I've been to Okinawa, and I saw plenty of young kids running around with black belts wrapped around their waist's. Do our kids not warrant the same opportunity because their not Japanese? I mean plenty of our schools are training at the same level as theirs aren't they?

I didn't realize this was the case in Japan. That is new to me, and very interesting.

[rb]

My attitude when I first started martial arts is that a black belt should be really tough to achieve. Not so, it is a beginner belt and should not be impossible to earn.

That being said, I don't think there should be jr. blackbelts. Just have one standard.

For the comments on Japan - I can't speak for all martial arts, but the training for high school judo for instance is very intense. Kids train 5-6 days a week all year for 3-5 hours a day.

What is the typical attendance in a western school? 2-3 days at 1-3 hours a day? That's why it takes so long to get a black belt in the west.

[SBN Doug]

Kuk Sool Won grants black belts to juniors, but its labelled as such and they are not required to learn the full curriculum to get it. If they are still young enough to get it at time of promotion, they must then learn the remainder of the adult material before being granted a "full" black belt status.

Another thought that came to mind in the original scenario was the liability of the tourneyment officials. I can see them letting her compete in forms, but I would never have let a minor spar with adults no matter how talented she was (or how many papers her parent's signed). That legal stuff can just get nasty.

[ninjanurse]

My thoughts exactly PSBN!

[IcemanSK]

Kuk Sool Won grants black belts to juniors, but its labelled as such and they are not required to learn the full curriculum to get it. If they are still young enough to get it at time of promotion, they must then learn the remainder of the adult material before being granted a "full" black belt status.

Another thought that came to mind in the original scenario was the liability of the tourneyment officials. I can see them letting her compete in forms, but I would never have let a minor spar with adults no matter how talented she was (or how many papers her parent's signed). That legal stuff can just get nasty.

Well said, sir.

[patusai]

Another thought that came to mind in the original scenario was the liability of the tourneyment officials. I can see them letting her compete in forms, but I would never have let a minor spar with adults no matter how talented she was (or how many papers her parent's signed). That legal stuff can just get nasty.

I totally agree. Should she get hurt the promoters would have more legal action then they could or would want to handle

[Rick_72]

What is the typical attendance in a western school? 2-3 days at 1-3 hours a day? That's why it takes so long to get a black belt in the west.

My kids attended an after school program at the dojo for the last 4 years. Where they not only had Karate training 5 days a week, but also incorporated that hard work into their school studies while being tutored by their Karate instructors on their daily school homework.

My oldest son also attended night class's when I attended mine. So basically he was training anywhere from 2-4 hours a day 5 days a week. When he took his Shodan test he was held to the adult standards, while he fought students his own age he demonstrated his self defence and Tuite on a teenage student 5 years his senior.

[jaymac]

When he took his Shodan test he was held to the adult standards, while he fought students his own age he demonstrated his self defence and Tuite on a teenage student 5 years his senior.

Isn't this what we want from our children anyways, to defend themselves. Maybe a jr. shodan cannot adequately defend himself/herself against an adult shodan, but don't you think that a child with some Martial Arts experience has a better chance against a would-be-attacker/abductor, than a child without MA experience.

[SBN Doug]

Maybe a jr. shodan cannot adequately defend himself/herself against an adult shodan, but don't you think that a child with some Martial Arts experience has a better chance against a would-be-attacker/abductor, than a child without MA experience.

Since the likelyhood of them being attacked by an adult shodan on the street is relatively small, then in my opinion the answer is yes!

(Actually, my answer is yes regardless of who the attacker is )