The Dichotomy Of Children and MAs...Does it Affect You?

[NightOwl]

I apologize if this topic has been posted before; I checked back 4 pages and didn't find anything on it, although I do see the topic thrown in conversations from time to time, but what is everyone's opinion on Children (we'll say under 16...although I realize maturity levels may vary, but let's talk in generalizations here) in MAs? Not really if children SHOULD train in MA, but wether the large amount of children is detrimental to the MA community as a whole.

My opinion (the hidden agenda of this post ) is that what I call the 'Karate Kid' effect has watered down MAs as a whole. After the Karate Kid, every soccer mom wanted her child to become a blackbelt in 'Karate' so that by today, we have more Mcdojos and gyms acting as parttime day care centers than places training what martial arts (if we are really honest) are for: training to fight. I would not want kids to just go at it and bruise each other up...but I sometimes wish that there were more 'Garage Dojos' with people who taught martial arts for the love of the art rather than as a career, and you could expect real beatings but down-to-earth training (I realize that I am over-romanticising a bit but pray let me ramble a bit more ) than places where respect, rare sparring, and belts are emphasized so that kids will want to come back...and yes, I realize that you need money to run a dojo...why not rent a place or even train at your home?. Today in the eyes of the average Joe MAs (referred to by the universal term of 'karate') are now something that ends when you get into your sophomore year of highschool at the latest, and I can't tell you how many people I have spoken with who did MAs 'when I was a little kid'. Personally, I'd rather have the more gritty training than nice rooms and formality but 75% of the class 12 and under (and no, I'm not a crotchety old man who likes to throw things at people passing by from the porch...kids are way cool, but I wouldn't want children at my lectures or when I was taking driver's ed class). Sorry if I came off a bit sour, I had a bad experience with kid friendly activites drowning out alot of training...*must...not...cry*

So what are your thoughts?

[username8517]

I agree with a lot of what you say. From my personal experience, I started MA when I was a child. My reasons for starting it at the time was because I had three cousins in there, I enjoyed hanging out with them, and most importantly, I thought it would be fun. Heck, even my brother soon joined after I did. However, I soon found out that karate was not all fun and games, wax on/wax off (to use a term fitting to your terminology), and flying through the air. It was about real dedication and hard work. And one by one, they all started to drop out as time progressed and real life got in the way.

Heck, even I got out of MA when I was around my freshman year of high school so I could have more of a social life. After all, I had just gotten my first degree black belt a year prior, what more was there left to know? But after leaving high school and entering the real world, I found my passion for martial arts never really disappeared and I got back in.

What does this have to do with your original question you ask:

Not really if children SHOULD train in MA, but wether the large amount of children is detrimental to the MA community as a whole.

Well it serves as a backdrop to my answer.

Yes I think large amounts of children can be detrimental to MA, but there are upsides to it as well. The problem I see is when children are put into martial arts at too young of an age in order to protect themselves from a bully at school, as a social event, or as a means of giving the child something to do while mommy and/or daddy does something else (i.e.--MA as a baby sitter).

With the bully scenario, children are often not equipped to deal with a bully mentally or emotionally--and some times physically--until they reach an age of maturity where they can stand on their own and say I've had it! It's the parent's responsibility to watch after the child until that point--not some 8th degree black belt who only sees a student maybe 2-3 hours a week. After all, kids often imitate what they see in real life. If you doubt me at all, put a group of kids together and have them watch 30 minutes of Power Rangers and see how many start jumping around kicking and punching like the red ranger not an hour after the show is over.

So this creates a problem--are you going to show little Johnny how to do a proper throat strike and just hope he doesn't do it if he's ever picked on? Or do you basically dumb down the techniques and applications you show him to ones that are less debilitating or permanent in nature?

What about the students who are just there socially or because they're parents want them to be? Odds are these children will have increased difficulty keeping attention, paying proper respect, and staying quiet. But then again, if they leave, so does mommy and daddy's wallet. So what are your options here. Make things more fun? Put more focus on no contact (or light if any is allowed at all) sparring and hitting bags and focus less on proper techniques and applications?

Like you, I'm at the point in my life and training where I would perfer my training to be in someone's garage or basement. Where I would come home sore and bruised. Training where I limp out of there not because I'm injured, but because I've pushed my body that far and that hard.

However, would I be training today if my martial arts as a child had not instilled that passion in me? Hard to say for sure but I would probably say no if I had to put money on it.

This is really where the paradox of children in martial arts comes into play--retention. For every 1000 students that enter martial arts for various reasons, if only 3% stay around past getting their black belt (just making number up here) and keep training hard, if not harder than they had in the past, then that still 30 skilled and talented martial artists who might not be around today.

[pegasi]

I think that a lot of the "nitty gritty" sort of training does happen in classes that are age sorted, so that there are no kids under about 13 in an "adult" class. Sure, a teacher may make an exception for a mature 11 or 12 yr old, but that should be the exception rather than the rule.

Classes labeled "adult" should have a minimum age (or at least rank, for younger students) to attend. Then the class can be harder physically, and you don't have to worry about the instructor slowing down the class for younger kids.

The class I attend is like that, if you can't keep up, its suggested that the kids go to the kids class, not the class slow down for the kids who shouldn't be there. There's also a lot less tolerance for "kidly" behavior.

[bushido_man96]

I think that MA for kids is a good thing. It gets them off the couch and doing something. In today's society of fast food and video games, it is important that we have kids be active. Now I know that there are other options for kid activity other than martial arts, however, there is no reason that the martial arts cannot provide this activity.

Take kid's wrestling, for example. Tens of thousands of kids across the nation participate in kid's wrestling every year, and many carry it on into high school with them. It is great conditioning, and also teaches them a little about body mechanics, working hard, and self-defense in a round-about way.

Martial arts classes directed towards kids, done right, can do the same for them as kid's wrestling does. It is up to the instructors to push the students, make them work hard, and lay down the law when they do not. If it comes to the point that MA just isn't working for one of them, then it is the responsibility of the instructor to say so to the parents.

Teaching MA to kids is not easy, nor is it for eveyone. However, it can be beneficial, if the instructors are willing to work hard at it.

[cross]

I think that MA for kids is a good thing. It gets them off the couch and doing something. In today's society of fast food and video games, it is important that we have kids be active. Now I know that there are other options for kid activity other than martial arts, however, there is no reason that the martial arts cannot provide this activity.

I completely agree. There is alot of benifits that come with not only martial arts training, but any physical activity. Especially with younger kids who are growing and still learning how there body moves and works. If it gets them thinking and off the couch then im all for it.

[lordtariel]

I don't see anything wrong with having kids learn martial arts. I think they should be separated into specific "kids only" classes, but it's also good instruction for older students to learn to deal with kids. Kids that show maturity should be able to get special invitations to come to older classes.

I don't particularly like the concept of "Karate Day Care" but at the same time, that may be the only time some of them ever receive any instruction regarding self-discipline, respect and physical fitness. It's wrong, but unfortunately, that's the way things go in this day and age.

[ps1]

Children, having no prior experience in martial arts, have no way to water them down.

It's the instructors who look to make huge profit off of the innocence of children and naivety of their parents that water down the arts.

I was watching Regis & Kelly one morning (I can't believe I just stated that publicly) and saw a 6 year old black belt. She was able to do all kinds of fancy stuff and hit pads really well. But I have no doubt that I could pick the child up by the throat and slam her to the ground killing or severly injuring her. She has no place wearing a black belt. Not to mention that, at 6 years old, she lacks the critical reasoning skills required to formulate strategies. All she can do is regurgitate information...and that is not a black belt.

I started training when I was 6. Now I'm an adult and am quite skilled. But it was my instructors that nurtured me and made me that way. I was not allowed to earn black belt until I was 18! But it was worth the wait.

Don't point at the children...point at the instructors of McDojos whose only interest is how full their pockets become!

[DragonMike]

I think children do have a place in martial arts. I started when I was 9, and it changed my life. I think that speration is good to a degree, but there is benefit to adults and kids training together. The adults can be an example for the kids, and the kids can ask questions that adults would never think of.

[pariah]

It's the instructors who look to make huge profit off of the innocence of children and naivety of their parents that water down the arts.

My thoughts exactly.

No matter how it is spun, the bottom line is greed.

[patusai]

I agree with the many that said it MA gets a kid off the couch or keeps them from playing computer games all day I believe that it will benefit the child and the community.