PARANOID: McDojo or not?

[lordtariel]

My concern was not with the belt testing fee (which I felt was not expensive), but the $200.00 per semester. Wow, that is alot of money.

If we're talking like a school semester, that's 10 weeks or approximately 2 1/2 months. I'm assuming they just mean every three though. That's about $66 a month, not that unreasonable for a school depending on how often you can come to practice. I pay about $65, but it includes all testing fees(excluding dan rankings) and I can come to any class I want during the week excluding Kendo(different instructor)

[AZVillarialum]

First post here....been lurking about for a few weeks and this thread caught my attention.

I trained in the Villari System for about 7 years a decade or so ago and now I am on the verge of getting back into martial arts.

(I'll get into that later as it also has some relavence here)

The thing with the Villari (or Cerio for that matter) systems is that they have always had a stigma of being mcdojos from some.

More so for Villaris.

To a certain extent there is a bit of truth in there, the studios are a buisness first and formeost and there are some questionable people promoted within these studios in some cases merely to open schools.

I can say from personal experiences that they know full well that they have such people in the orginization. Among the quality practicioners in the Villaris system there is an unspoken understanding that they (or we as it was) know who has the talent and ability and are the true Martial Artists representative of the system.

I used to get frustrated a lot as I was working towards my black belt when I would see marginal practicioners that had horrible basics or sloppy technique get promoted anyway.

My instructors always told me that you shouldn't worry about others and that you should measure yourself with your own progress, not comparing to anothers ability or lack therof.

Anyone who has been in martial arts on the east coast is sure to be able to attest that although there are some garbage black belts that every now and then they will run into a supposed "mcDojo" student that has mad talent and skill.

It is what it is, they do what they do to make a living and to pay the bills.

In some cases a pretty good living too.

Anyone who dismisses such systems soley based on a few run ins with the trash of the systems is closing thier mind to a great system.

In the Villari system the global view is that you get your Black Belt so they can start to teach you the real material. By that time most of the bad eggs are long gone.

That said on to what I am finding here in Arizona.

I was specifically looking into the USSD system and thought that it would be pretty close since Mattera was a student of Villaris and I remember him from those days.

I'm thinking same material should be a fairly common setup with pricing.

Boy was I off the mark there.

First thing out of this kids mouth is contract contract contract.

$200 dollars a month he says - for that you get unlimited groups and a private a week.

I counter with "Well I really am not looking for that many private lessons to start, I have a lot more personal commitments these days as compared to my early 20's when I was a dojo rat"

Well after a little back and forth he pretty much says that they do not do programs with just group rates anymore.

What a load of horse bleep, I'm still sort of in shock about it.

I mean $200 a month - wow

I asked how much was a private outright and he tells me $75.

Are you kidding me?

For a little more on USSD take a look at this

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2074

On second thought I might just look for a Parker or Kuhoa lineage school and start fresh. At least I will not be making a car payment to a dojo.

[ps1]

The part that worries me the most is the 12 month commitment. It's extremely normal to have testing fees. Those are usually sent to a certifying body of some sort. It go toward certification of your rank and getting a certificate sent to you.

The website link doesn't seem to be working today so I can't comment on the site.

However, if you're having fun and enjoy what you're learning, don't worry too much about it.

[Ann-Marie]

MA's are studied for different reasons and motivations and if your school's motivations fit with your values then the supplier/consumer relationship will flourish. You have to evaluate this in all walks of life and continually do so.

If I was in your situation i'd ask myself a few questions -

"do i feel like a sausage in sausage factory?" , "am I getting what I want out of this?" and "do I feel satisfied with this" If the answer is no i'd give my sensei an opportunity to hear my views and then if nothing improves then i'd pack it in. There are plenty of schools that have a good business model that centres around making money through good tuition and building a good reputation. This is all about your study and your training.

[ps1]

Ok. I finally figured out a way to get on the webpage. I would say that the fact that the entire front page is dedicated to selling his CD really is McDojoish. He has lots of info about making money attached to the site. That's odd.

[Gufbal1981]

First post here....been lurking about for a few weeks and this thread caught my attention.

I trained in the Villari System for about 7 years a decade or so ago and now I am on the verge of getting back into martial arts.

(I'll get into that later as it also has some relavence here)

The thing with the Villari (or Cerio for that matter) systems is that they have always had a stigma of being mcdojos from some.

More so for Villaris.

To a certain extent there is a bit of truth in there, the studios are a buisness first and formeost and there are some questionable people promoted within these studios in some cases merely to open schools.

I can say from personal experiences that they know full well that they have such people in the orginization. Among the quality practicioners in the Villaris system there is an unspoken understanding that they (or we as it was) know who has the talent and ability and are the true Martial Artists representative of the system.

I used to get frustrated a lot as I was working towards my black belt when I would see marginal practicioners that had horrible basics or sloppy technique get promoted anyway.

My instructors always told me that you shouldn't worry about others and that you should measure yourself with your own progress, not comparing to anothers ability or lack therof.

Anyone who has been in martial arts on the east coast is sure to be able to attest that although there are some garbage black belts that every now and then they will run into a supposed "mcDojo" student that has mad talent and skill.

It is what it is, they do what they do to make a living and to pay the bills.

In some cases a pretty good living too.

Anyone who dismisses such systems soley based on a few run ins with the trash of the systems is closing thier mind to a great system.

In the Villari system the global view is that you get your Black Belt so they can start to teach you the real material. By that time most of the bad eggs are long gone.

That said on to what I am finding here in Arizona.

I was specifically looking into the USSD system and thought that it would be pretty close since Mattera was a student of Villaris and I remember him from those days.

I'm thinking same material should be a fairly common setup with pricing.

Boy was I off the mark there.

First thing out of this kids mouth is contract contract contract.

$200 dollars a month he says - for that you get unlimited groups and a private a week.

I counter with "Well I really am not looking for that many private lessons to start, I have a lot more personal commitments these days as compared to my early 20's when I was a dojo rat"

Well after a little back and forth he pretty much says that they do not do programs with just group rates anymore.

What a load of horse bleep, I'm still sort of in shock about it.

I mean $200 a month - wow

I asked how much was a private outright and he tells me $75.

Are you kidding me?

For a little more on USSD take a look at this

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2074

On second thought I might just look for a Parker or Kuhoa lineage school and start fresh. At least I will not be making a car payment to a dojo.

Wow...when I was with USSD, we were taught to say commitment...agreement...never contract. Plus, I also heard that the cost is $250 a month now...kind of crazy, yeah?

[Brady]

If you have concerns about your Dojo, and you are in Colorado Springs area, there is a Shorin-ryu dojo in your area that you should check out. Kyoshi Ader is an Director in the All Okinawan Shorin-ryu Karate and Kobudo Federation. He trained under Fusei Kise, who trained under Hohan Sokon, who trained under... all the way back to Bushi Matsumura. At any rate, I train at a sister school in New Orleans, and you should go and check it out. I have no idea how much fees would be, but the system is great, and I would bet there's no fear in it being a McDojo.