PARANOID: McDojo or not?

[patusai]

If it Looks like a McDojo, Smells like a McDojo, Sounds like a McDojo, and Costs like a McDojo, then it must be a McDojo...!

Well, my sensei's dojo doesn't look overly flashy like a McDojo, and the website seems humble and modest and equally non-flashy. I do have to pay two-hundred dollars per semester if I take it in school, but I think taking martial arts is generally expensive.

It would be interesting to know how many people pay their grading fee before the grading and have been failed? The trend seems to be, pay your fee, grade, pass. Most of the time the person is ready, but there are times when they are not, yet still pass.

Sometimes I feel that I am not ready, but I still pass.

It is karate and not brain surgery. Usually an instructor will not allow a student to test (unless the student insists possibly) unless the instructor feels that the student is ready. Most students do not feel ready because many have a preconcieved notion of karate and rank. They watch too much TV.

Money is sometimes necessary for rents (even holding class at a VFW hall may cost some money) and insurance is never cheap. I believe that most teachers are not pulling in a great deal of money even if they are teaching full time. Maybe the best thing to do is look around. Go to other schools and watch. This way you can perhaps better see for yourself. Goo luck in your search.

[ninjanurse]

Good points here. Greed can overtake some but testing fees so not make a McDojo by any means...there are alot of other factors. Likewise, money can be important in that rent needs to be paid, etc. Even among schools of the same organization you can have vast differences in quality of instruction and motive.....personal experience with this has caused our Master Instructor to require testing of students at the main school only. It is too bad but as Patrick said, "That's just the way it is".

I say judge a tree by the fruit it produces.

[cross]

It is karate and not brain surgery. Usually an instructor will not allow a student to test (unless the student insists possibly) unless the instructor feels that the student is ready. Most students do not feel ready because many have a preconcieved notion of karate and rank. They watch too much TV.

I see what your saying, and from experience have seen students who the instructor thought where ready, and they looked ready. But on the day everything fell apart, in a big way, not just a few techniques wrong here and there but major mistakes. Yet they still passed, i dont think im the only person who would have witnessed this kind of thing either.

[Protagonist]

Well, there have been no definite, "Yes this is a McDojo, get out while you still can," just discussions, so I guess this isn't a McDojo and I'm okay.

[cross]

Well, there have been no definite, "Yes this is a McDojo, get out while you still can," just discussions, so I guess this isn't a McDojo and I'm okay.

I dont think there ever really is a definite "yes this is a McDojo, get out while you still can". It depends on what you want from training, if you want to learn a martial art, for the sake of learning one then you can do that at the majority of schools. However if you want to focus on a high level of fitness, competition, self defence etc. Then not all schools are equal. Once you define your goals and reasons for training, you will work out weather or not the school is a good place for you to train. That doesnt mean its a "mcdojo" (i dont really like that term) it just means you have different goals to the other people who are training there.

[NightOwl]

If it Looks like a McDojo, Smells like a McDojo, Sounds like a McDojo, and Costs like a McDojo, then it must be a McDojo...!

Well, my sensei's dojo doesn't look overly flashy like a McDojo, and the website seems humble and modest and equally non-flashy. I do have to pay two-hundred dollars per semester if I take it in school, but I think taking martial arts is generally expensive.

It would be interesting to know how many people pay their grading fee before the grading and have been failed? The trend seems to be, pay your fee, grade, pass. Most of the time the person is ready, but there are times when they are not, yet still pass.

Sometimes I feel that I am not ready, but I still pass.

I went to a TKD gym that I too become paranoid about when I started reaserching MA. I wouldn't have called it a Mcdojo per se (the instructor was a really great guy, and there was a seperate sparring class...point sparring, but sparring nonetheless), however like you I felt that I was getting belts without being ready for them. I began to question if I was just getting more 'Shiny' belts because I could memorize forms and put in a good effort rather than gaining martial skill, and so I left to find a new MA (although there were some other issues involved as well). Whether it is a mcdojo or not, if YOU feel like you are not getting the training out of it that you need, than that is what ultimately matters.

[bushido_man96]

I went to a TKD gym that I too become paranoid about when I started reaserching MA. I wouldn't have called it a Mcdojo per se (the instructor was a really great guy, and there was a seperate sparring class...point sparring, but sparring nonetheless), however like you I felt that I was getting belts without being ready for them. I began to question if I was just getting more 'Shiny' belts because I could memorize forms and put in a good effort rather than gaining martial skill, and so I left to find a new MA (although there were some other issues involved as well). Whether it is a mcdojo or not, if YOU feel like you are not getting the training out of it that you need, than that is what ultimately matters.

These are good suggestions, here. If you are getting what you want, then that is great.

As far as looking at the website, I noticed that not many of the classes went over an hour long. I don't think I like that very much, but that is just me. However, $30 per testing, I think is a good deal.

I don't think that just because a school charges for testings makes it a McDojo. This is America, the land of opportunity. If someone learns a skill like TKD, karate, etc, and wants to provide a service to the public by offering classes for a fee, then great; power to them. After all, that is the American Dream, isn't it? Doing what you love, and making money at it.

Now, with that said, it is the responsibility of every business owner, whether they be selling food, clothing, MA skills, etc., to provide the best product that they can to the consumer. Now, we all know that it doesn't always work out that way, and we as consumers have to do our homework so that we know where we can get the most bang for our hard-earned buck.

In the end, it comes down to responsibility; both that of the consumer and the businessman.

[Havoc88]

I think you got your point accross the first time BM Just kidding.

Cross, I do think you make a good point. But I think that even if you only want to learn an art just to learn one you are way better off by not training at a McDojo. Since they utterly overcharge you, why stay there? Sure, in the end you get what you came for, learning for the sake of learning, but you will be overpriced for the sercive they deliver.

The other option is to learn an art for the sake of learning at a good school. This way, you also get what you came for, only at a lower price. All this is only looking at the price ofcourse.

So I see no real reason for anyone to train at a McDojo actually..

BM: Problem is that there is no complete information in this world and that information costs money. You can not just trust a business man by their pretty blue eyes. The business man knows this and could just try and exploit this information assymetry. People strive for their aspiration level. As long as what they get is more than their aspiration than they will be happy. As long as they do not know they are being ripped off, they will continue to be happy.

Glad there are forums like this who can help people overcome this information assymetry so we can get the most bang for our buck

Tom

[bushido_man96]

I think you got your point accross the first time BM Just kidding.

So I see no real reason for anyone to train at a McDojo actually..

This is a good point. The problem is that I don't think they realize that they are until it is too late.

BM: Problem is that there is no complete information in this world and that information costs money. You can not just trust a business man by their pretty blue eyes. The business man knows this and could just try and exploit this information assymetry. People strive for their aspiration level. As long as what they get is more than their aspiration than they will be happy. As long as they do not know they are being ripped off, they will continue to be happy.

Personally, I don't think that the majority of people that are in business, no matter what the product, think like this. Sure, they are trying to make money, but I still think that many are still concerned about putting out a good product, so they get repeat business.

[Havoc88]

I think you got your point accross the first time BM Just kidding.

So I see no real reason for anyone to train at a McDojo actually..

This is a good point. The problem is that I don't think they realize that they are until it is too late.

BM: Problem is that there is no complete information in this world and that information costs money. You can not just trust a business man by their pretty blue eyes. The business man knows this and could just try and exploit this information assymetry. People strive for their aspiration level. As long as what they get is more than their aspiration than they will be happy. As long as they do not know they are being ripped off, they will continue to be happy.

Personally, I don't think that the majority of people that are in business, no matter what the product, think like this. Sure, they are trying to make money, but I still think that many are still concerned about putting out a good product, so they get repeat business.

You said it yourself. The problem is that they do not realize it untill it is too late. As long as people do not know they are being overcharged, they won't go and search for another gym.

Tom