Political Correctness

[Elky]

I think if the group is close, then punishing the group will be beneficial. If there are 1 or more people disrupting the class, and everyone else knows they're going to get punished for it, they will try to help you maintain order so they won't get punished. Plus it will add the guilt factor to the ones causing a disruption and they will think twice about causing disruption because they will know that everyone will suffer otherwise. OR it will just tick the rest of the class off and then after you get everyone to do push ups, you begin kumite and have the disruptive ones go first against 10 consecutive opponents or something lol.

You must've had teachers that tried this at school though - it doesn't work. The people who cause trouble, by their nature, are less likely to feel guilt at making others share their punishment. If anything, it makes the punishment less meaningful as it doesn't single out the individual responsible - it "dilutes" the punishment. Adults are unlikely to administer a good kicking to a disruptive child (quite rightly!) so the idea that, as an instructor, you should rely on your pupils to administer punishment on your behalf is faulty (and a little silly). Also, in the format of the average karate class, there isn't the opportunity for adults to help maintain order - you're rarely working in groups independently for extended periods of time so there isn't usually enough interaction between adults and kids for them to help keep the kids in order.

[bushido_man96]

It seems to me that the MA world is getting treated inconsistently here. The yelling, I can understand, but I don't yell at my students anyway. I may get stern with them, but never really yell at them.

However, push-ups are physical exercise, not physical abuse. What is the most amount of push-ups any instructor ever gives a kid for punishment or otherwise; 20, or 30? This isn't many.

Send your kid to play in a tackle football league, and they beat on each other all day long. Do push-ups in an MA class, and it's physical abuse. There is no consistency there.

Edited December 4, 2006 by bushido_man96

[bushido_man96]

I think if the group is close, then punishing the group will be beneficial. If there are 1 or more people disrupting the class, and everyone else knows they're going to get punished for it, they will try to help you maintain order so they won't get punished. Plus it will add the guilt factor to the ones causing a disruption and they will think twice about causing disruption because they will know that everyone will suffer otherwise. OR it will just tick the rest of the class off and then after you get everyone to do push ups, you begin kumite and have the disruptive ones go first against 10 consecutive opponents or something lol.

You must've had teachers that tried this at school though - it doesn't work. The people who cause trouble, by their nature, are less likely to feel guilt at making others share their punishment. If anything, it makes the punishment less meaningful as it doesn't single out the individual responsible - it "dilutes" the punishment. Adults are unlikely to administer a good kicking to a disruptive child (quite rightly!) so the idea that, as an instructor, you should rely on your pupils to administer punishment on your behalf is faulty (and a little silly). Also, in the format of the average karate class, there isn't the opportunity for adults to help maintain order - you're rarely working in groups independently for extended periods of time so there isn't usually enough interaction between adults and kids for them to help keep the kids in order.

The ideas here can work; you just have to pick your spots.

[tke010]

Sometimes I think Martial Arts class is the only discipline some kids get.

My kids are great !!! and i look forward to teaching them every mon and wed night.

I have an open invite for the parents to stay and watch the whole class anytime they want. The ones that take me up on that see what I as the instructor has to deal with and how i deal with it. My parents have spoken highly of my no nonsense teaching style and that their childs behavior has improved at home as well.

IMO, Kids in Martial arts are normally better behaved than kids that do not attend classes.

Everything has to be done in moderation and kids respond better if you talk to them like you would an adult.

[Brandon Fisher]

Physical excercise is not abuse thats helping strengthen the body and helping build a healthier lifestyle.

Yelling is verbally abusive depending on the tone. Being stern is discipline. I mean its martial arts, we as instructors are trying to teach people to defend themselves god sake. This is not basket weaving or ballet. There is contact involved, there is physical excercise involved. If you fool around you are guaranteed to get hurt and sometimes really bad. Its not a joke, its not a game. Lets get serious about it.

Bearich,

Good post I agree with you.

[dragonwarrior_keltyr]

I don't have much new to add. I think that there is room for abuse as there are in most things. However, a little bit of "tough love" doesn't harm a kid. Of course, a teacher should get to know the kids and know which ones are too sensitive to take a little bit of rough treatment - pushup punnishment, "yelling at" etc and only need a quite talking to - and which ones need the punnishment (you know the kids I"m thinking of... the cocky little ones lol)

[NightOwl]

You have to be carfeful when dealing with kids... a child is probally there mosty just for fun/ on behalf of their parents, and you shouldn't give them too hard of a time. Having said that, if a kid is acting up, I personally see no reason why you can't offer the option of doing push-ups etc. or a refund and a walk out the door. Your place your call.

[jaymac]

When parents fill out their initial form when signing their child up for our classes, the main reason (checked by most) for their interest in MA ,in regards to their child ,was discipline. There is little to no discipline in public schools anymore. Parents these days have lost control of their children. Who is to blame, I can't say, but children need discipline in order to be good children and good adults. Do you remember a time when if you did something wrong, you were scared to "wait until dad got home." Children in our program are not"yelled at," and mostly positive reiforcement is used over push ups. But yes, we do hand out push ups to students if needed. Now, none of them are down there for a set of 200, but 20 push ups is good enough to get our point across. We havent lost one student yet because they were given "discipline" push ups.

[Brandon Fisher]

Unfortunetly discipline in schools have been limited due to the liability.

[Patrick]

Hello,

This topic should steer clear of general political issues (such as the state of the public school system, good or bad, and related effects and causes).

Thank you.