Political Correctness

[shukokai2000]

Having been on an Instructors refreshewr course,, Child protectection policy was involved...

Has discipline gone out of the window.

because these were in affect

1. Shounting at a child , comes under Verbal abuse

2. Punishment like press-ups comes under physical abuse

3. Putting to much combination/skill borders Mental abuse.

Where will it end, how will respect / discipline / etc be earned

[Rateh]

I guess I'm physically and mentally abusing the children I teach...

[username8517]

I'm going to try and stay off my soapbox on this one, but I make no gaurantees.

I believe the need for political correctness in every aspect of our lives has just become a pain in the butt. Now I'm not saying that political correctness is wrong or there isn't a need for it. But the bottom line is that at some point in your life you will be offended by something or someone and you will have your feelings hurt. Does that mean we should try and eliminate those things all together? If so, what do we use to define someone's character? Certainly we can't use overcoming adversity then.

To address the points you were given:

--Can shouting at a child be considered verbal abuse? Yes, but it all depends on the tone, the words used, and the rational behind it.

--Can punishments like push-ups be considered physical abuse? Yes, but once again it depends on the rational behind it and how long you force them to undergo say punishment. I do not see the problem in ordering a student to do ten push ups for not paying attention in class, but I do see a problem with order the same student to do push up for twenty minutes for the same offense.

--Can putting too many combinations together be considered mental abuse? Yes, but only if you relentlessly push the student to achieve it knowing it is beyond their capabilities and badgering them for their short comings when they fail. This could also be considered verbal and physical abuse as well.

However, these abuses are hopefully the exceptions and not the norms of the MA world. Unfortunately, in today's sue-crazy age, we often have to tred the line, worrying what we say and do, hoping we don't offend someone, their parent, or worse--their lawyer.

[ps1]

I think people forget that we train martial arts. While the main goal is not fighting (for some it is...but you get my point), it still contains combative techniques. In my 21 years of practice I've been abused by student and teacher alike. If someone doesn't appreciate us trying to make them better, they know where the door is. I didn't force them to come in the door. But I'll make sure the handle hits em in the rear on the way out.

[JackCrevalle]

As to push ups being physical abuse, do what my instructor does. Early on when I started back i was in a class with two children and another adult. The kids got giggly and after the second time the intructor warned them he looked at us, the two adults, and said "Sorry about this guys" and gave everybody pushups.

[Patrick]

This isn't political correctness, this is what needs to happen.

You have to consider it carefully. As bearich highlighted, all 3 of the things can be true. It is far too easy to read a few keywords and react harshly because someone is limiting you. i.e. you may see "shouting" and "verbal abuse" and leap to "I can't yell at anyone!" "No one's gonna stop me from teaching my students how I want!"

It's a natural reaction, but, it's an extreme and there is always plenty of room between extremes. It's also not reasonable. We're talking about children. Children are different from adults. One way is that they are more likely to do what adults say - even if it's not the best thing - especially if they are placed in that adult's care, which is what happens when a child attends an MA school.

Even though you didn't force them to come in, that gives you no right to abuse them. You do not have the right to push them physically to the point where you damage their bodies. Nor do you have the right, in my opinion, to scream at them, berating them personally or cursing at them unless their parents are somehow OK with it (in which case it's still questionable, but I can see a viable case or two) and it is an acknowledged part of your program.

The fact is, we need things like this in place because children are not generally able to simply defend themselves, especially when they are dropped off in someone elses care like this They are generally going to listen to their teachers, even if they personally question it and if it is not something that is clearly wrong (i.e. sexual abuse) they are more than likely to go along with it. I would also say that they are generally less aware of their limits than an adult would be, especially if we are talking about kids under 13. The adult is the one that has to be accountable and responsible. And written policies help to ensure that they do.

I mean this with the utmost respect, but I realized you said "in affect" - is it possible that you are not quoting the policy word for word and it could be a slight exaggeration? Even if you are, I don't really see a problem with it, though.

Edit: Also, as responsible people, I know that we might say "well, I would never do that, I don't need any rules." But, policies aren't crafted for responsible people. They are crafted so that those irresponsible people who make it in the field will be less likely to hurt someone and that if they do, they will be more likely to be punished.

[ps1]

The problem arises though, Patrick, when people take the policies and say there is no in between. There are many orgs out there that do just that.

[Jiffy]

My 2c is really quite simple...

Common sence and reason has completely gone out the window. Because of a few that do the wrong thing, the many must pay.

As ps1 said, the problem is, once it's in writing, you have no legal standpoint. There is no such thing as discretion any more.

So what's my view? Well, quite simply, it's pathetic and counter productive, and is only a good thing for the few people who can't use common sence, but it is a growing part of every day life, so it's best to just get used to it.

[Elky]

As to push ups being physical abuse, do what my instructor does. Early on when I started back i was in a class with two children and another adult. The kids got giggly and after the second time the intructor warned them he looked at us, the two adults, and said "Sorry about this guys" and gave everybody pushups.

Why? What was the point in punishing the people who weren't involved in disrupting his class? The point of punishment is to teach people that their actions have a negative outcome and therefore they should avoid those actions. Punishing everyone teaches the class that even if you behave perfectly well you are likely to be subjected to random punishments that have nothing to do with your actions.

Learning theory says that punishment (or reward) should always be immediate, relevant and specific. i.e. the punishment should follow the action, be clearly related to the action and have suitable value as a punishment (or reward).

[AT]

I think if the group is close, then punishing the group will be beneficial. If there are 1 or more people disrupting the class, and everyone else knows they're going to get punished for it, they will try to help you maintain order so they won't get punished. Plus it will add the guilt factor to the ones causing a disruption and they will think twice about causing disruption because they will know that everyone will suffer otherwise. OR it will just tick the rest of the class off and then after you get everyone to do push ups, you begin kumite and have the disruptive ones go first against 10 consecutive opponents or something lol.