Testing

[bushido_man96]

I like testings because they are a general overview of a certain level of acquired knowledge. For example, most of our schools have a required curriculum, which sets levels of knowledge (i.e., certain techniques, forms, bunkai, etc.) to be attained. After a group of blue belts test, you will then know which ones are ready to learn the brown belt material.

However, playing the devil's advocate on myself, here, the down side is that a test does not accurately reflect what the student knows outside of the required curriculum. However, if sparring takes place, like during most tests, this is where the true self-expression lies. Variances in skill level will arise here. Also, different tendencies and attitudes as well.

On that note, the instructor does see the students every day in class, and knows what they are capable of. When an outside judge comes to set on the panel, he is going to grade specifically on technique, because he does not know what the students are like in class. However, having an outsider come in to judge brings one who will have no bias to the judging panel.

Have I answered the question stated? Well, I think I just talked around it; oh well! Testings have pros and cons, and so does not testing.

[Brandon Fisher]

Goal setting and quality control.

I think, for the goal setting perspective, that applies to children more than adults. Hopefully, a mature adult should not need superficial tests as a goal. However, this is a great point for children.

I don't think it is a good form of quality control. Most schools do test. There are still far too many subpar black belts out there. That just comes from incompetent instructors.

Adults do need goal points just like kids do. Its unfortunate that our society is so focused on belts or the equivilant in other things or promotions in general. We as a society have forgotten that hard work achieves something and in turn we have the"feel good" things to help people. I totally disagree with teaching martial arts as a feel good thing. Its not something to have to brag about or make you look like something special, but it sure has become that.

Substandard black belts are not just the result of incompetent instructors but also those that don't expect anything of the student and will do it just for the money or to make themselves look good because they have a lot of black belts under them. I came up under one instructor who didn't test except certain people. Many people got handed their black belts where I had to work my tail off for mine. Its insulting to those of us who worked hard in and out of the dojo for it for someone to get handed theirs. It took me almost 11 years to get mine. I have seen people get it training twice a week in 4 years. I have also seen one person go from san kyu to Yondan with a total of 10 years in and was only 21 years old. So it just depends on the instructor more than anything.

[Rick_72]

For Kyu grades our "tests" are just for the student to perform their requirements. Kind of like a ceremony. Our Sensei has already deemed that they will get promoted.

For Dan grades the test's are the real deal. They determine whether or not your getting promoted. So you can fail them, but he hasn't recommended anyone that wasn't ready to pass the test that I've seen.

[ninjanurse]

Goal setting and quality control.

I don't think it is a good form of quality control. Most schools do test. There are still far too many subpar black belts out there. That just comes from incompetent instructors.

As far as quality control goes ....sending a student to a formal test by the Master Instructor has more to do with you as an instructor than anything else. It is about the quality of your instruction not their performance.

[ps1]

Good point. But like I conceded if you're sending a student to a panel a test does make sense.

[Rateh]

Yes we test. It is a benchmark for their progress. For adults I can see not testing. But for kids it lets them and their parents see what they have learned and accomplished. Or if they don't pass, what they still need to learn in order to acheive the next rank.

[Jiffy]

to a large degree, we grade our students because that's the way it's always been done in our lineage. However, while I do see some disadvantages to it, there are some advantages to it.

Firstly, it provides the student a sense of achievement and therefore motivation (particularly with kids)

Secondly, it allows for a structure of teaching in order to ensure fairness and equality. In this way, it ensures all the T's are crossed and the I's are dotted.

Thirdly, it provides an easy method of identification. While it's true that instructors see their students each class, a belt system helps to remind the instructor where each person is at. As well as this, it instantly indicates to the lower grade students who they can go and speak to for help (eg. Brown/Black Belt).

[ps1]

to a large degree, we grade our students because that's the way it's always been done in our lineage. However, while I do see some disadvantages to it, there are some advantages to it.

Firstly, it provides the student a sense of achievement and therefore motivation (particularly with kids)

Secondly, it allows for a structure of teaching in order to ensure fairness and equality. In this way, it ensures all the T's are crossed and the I's are dotted.

Thirdly, it provides an easy method of identification. While it's true that instructors see their students each class, a belt system helps to remind the instructor where each person is at. As well as this, it instantly indicates to the lower grade students who they can go and speak to for help (eg. Brown/Black Belt).

I agree with a rank system. It's testing I don't totally like. I think a belt should be given when the student is ready.

I'm just trying to decide how I will do it eventually. I've trained in several different schools. Some tested, others did not. I see advantages in both. But I don't see disadvantages with not testing. In the end I'll probably test because passing a test seems to give people that warm fuzzy feeling inside. A sense of legitimacy of sorts. Thanks for the opinions. I much appreciate it.

[Brandon Fisher]

ps1,

I too have been a part of both sides of the equation. I think that kyu grades especially have a good feeling when they pass. Yudansha should have a sense of accomplishment in other ways I think but still I think passing a really tough dan grade testing is something that always sticks with you. But I agree I see benefits to both.

[bushido_man96]

The major con to testings is that many people see them now as just another way for an instructor to bring in additional income.