Why are so many Karate-ka Anti-Ata?

[OldSkoulKarateKa]

Ok,First of all Iwould like to state,That I am A Karate Sensei,and I teach a class for the Local College aside from my main Dojo.I live in a small town of about 37,000, In this town we have My Dojo,and a Shotokan Dojo},A Kenpo School, A Kung Fu Academy,A Jujitsu School,and 3 TKD Shops that have Karate not TKD on their signs,go figure,One of The Karate I mean Tkd shops....cough cough... is A Karate for kids wich is an ATA school. As most of us already know.With all this said in my College Karate class one of the students is the Business manager and black belt at the local ata karate for kids,So as you can imagine we butt heads all the time,and She likes to debate with me and quickly gets very offended and Quite after she puts her foot in her mouth.Now with all of this said I will get to the point of this biography.Here are my top 5 reasons why many Karate-Ka are Anti-ATA. and this might not apply to all ATA schools but the ones ive been exposed to it is.

.....Why are so many Karate-ka Anti-ATA?

1. Very young Black Belts or Toy Black Belts.averange in town is 7 for the TKD shops

2. Coined as Fad based Belt Factories.they sell the parents what they want even at the cost of not investing enough training or proper time in the student

3. The self defense is missing.Not all black belts can defend themselves and thats sad...

4. The will not compete outside of their organization,I'd say fear,The past seven ATA Black belts I've talked to and then they get cocky enough to come down and train, think my Brown belts are monsters, and gripe and moan when I or one of my guys makes contact and not even full contact

5. The claim of being"Americas leader in martial arts"They arn't my leader or really anyone i knows leader.

[Brandon Fisher]

I would say you are not alone. This tends to be a trend nationwide. Its sad because these kids 9 and 10 years old wearing 2nd adn 3rd degree black belts think they really are that rank. But put them against anyone who has trained the normal amount of time and 10 times harder for it and they don't have a chance. Not physically or mentally.

Sad situation but its a factor in todays MA world.

[bushido_man96]

I was an ATA student at one time. There are many good ATA black belts out there, both at competiton and fighting and teaching. I have had three instructors that were good at all three. I also know some that do compete in other organizations, and do well. The main reason they compete withing their own organization is because they have a point system that lets them build up to competing at the organizations World Championships. I have also known of some ATA black belts that have competed in Olympic style events. Yes, they do allow kids to advance in rank. I don't have a big problem with this. It is just a piece of cloth, after all, right??

As for the self-defense, I think that it is there. Each belt rank has self-defense techniques, up until the higher colored belt ranks. Also, they have programs that allow them to explore other areas of training, like ground fighting, pressure point control tactics, Olympic style competition, and weapons training.

As far as training future leaders, it is a philosophy of the organization. The organization thinks that it is important for the students to set good examples in the community, and provide a positive place for young and old students to learn. They are essentially trying to lead by example. Also, in the ATA, the titile of Master must be tested for. It isn't just given out when a certain rank is met. You must be a 6th degree to be eligible, and then you must apply for the test, and then be granted permission to test, and then must pass the test.

[stoneheart]

Short classes combined with low standards = poor quality of instruction. That formula can be used by many different studios, not just the ATA. They just seem to be a major offender since they are so large. I understand there are good ATA studios... just none I have seen yet.

By the way, I have no problems with taekwondo schools calling themselves karate. Shotokan karate is a huge influence in TKD, after all.

[obiwansbane]

what is the ATA? its obviously some organization of sorts but ive actually never heard of it...

also i agree, maybe a first degree black belt to some1 under 15 but u should be at least 17 before they even think of letting you test for your second degree and with that you must have had your first degree for quite a while... at least thats my opinion

[bushido_man96]

ATA stands for American Taekwondo Association.

[ps1]

I will preface my statements by first admitting that I have only entered three ATA schools ever. Once to inquire about classes and the other two were to give BJJ self defense demonstrations. They were all different schools.

When I went in to inquire about learning TKD, the first words out of the instructor's mouth were, "The most important reason for learning martial arts is physical fitness." That immediately turned me off. I was still in the military at the time and in peak shape! In hindsite, at least the guy knew his strengths, but it's not what I wanted out of TKD.

During both Self Defense demonstrations, we put the students into basic holds (bear hugs, headlocks, chokes). They didn't have the first clue how to defend themselves when these things were actually being applied. Three of the students were adult black belts and two others jr. black belts. It's my understanding that ATA has a national standard curriculum. So I'm not that impressed with their self defense.

Most disturbing, however, during the demonstration was how the jr. black belts seemed to fool around while we demonstrated our techniques. Their instructor tried, with little success, to correct their behavior but they just ignored him.

While I'm sure this doesn't represent all ATA schools, it just gave me a bad taste for them. Oh yeah...the camoflauge belt doesn't help things either. That's just wierd!

[OldSkoulKarateKa]

I currently have 7 of their former Black belts training under me,and i have heard an ear full mostly cause they are bitter towards the ATA,and for guys that claim to be good full contact fighters amongst other claims,they can't go full contact, oh funny story,We have one of the former ATA black belts that the whole dojo has nicknamed Hi-Karate he looks like Chuck Norris from the early 70s,the first time we got ready to kumite,he asks me, where are the rest of the pads? cause everyone was wearing Karate mits,and then he told me that he wasn't going to fight until he had a chest protector,and I ask, why?...He simply replied with this profound statement......We were told by our instructors at ATA that if we didn't wear a chest protector there was a chance that a round kick to the chest would stop our heart......I uttered a long OOOOKKKAAYYYY then i gave a heart to heart on how i have never heard of anyone's heart getting shutdown by a round house with the instep and shin of the foot and how in order to flatline an individual you would need to use a technique that hits with direct force or shock if you will,such as a push heel kick or mule styled side kick{both are in a stomping motion with the heel of the foot)and a palm heel or well placed straight punch are and have been documented to be more than cappable to shut down the heart,liver,blader and kidney's,because these techniques when properly trained can and will generate more than enough direct force or shock...so what i conclude from that statement is what as they being taught.....

[bushido_man96]

Wow, OldSkoul, you had some good ones there. When I was in the ATA, we had some instructors that would spar with no pads on. We had some pretty good contact at times, too. I'll admit, it wasn't full contact, but we had some good, solid contact.

The guy you are speaking of had some bad misinformation. Unfortunately, it is hard to control the people who make statements like that.

I am aware that the ATA has come under a lot of fire, and I can understand why. It is a big organization, and I don't think the quality of the instructors has been controlled very well.

[Brandon Fisher]

A good solid shot with a roundhouse using the instep can stop the heart or make it skip a beat. It has to be extremely hard but it can be done.