Touchy topic....

[Rick_72]

I've been following, and contributing to, a pretty touchy debate on another martial arts forum, and wanted to get some more opinions on it.

What's the general thought around here on kids and their jr. black belts?

My argument has been, that its a good thing to promote kids that have been training for many years (in some cases longer than adults had to) , and have earned it, to jr black belts.

The arguments I've heard in return range anywhere from physical to mental reason's why deserving kids, who have proven their maturity to possess such techniques, shouldn't be promoted until they range between 16-18 years old.

I guess my arguments are that the physical excuse doesn't really hold any water because adults of all sizes and ages study martial arts, and in many case achieve the black belt level. Also, that when you get older and start to lose some of your physical ability, no one takes you Dan grades away. My argument to the maturity question is usually that I've met plenty of adults throughout my training that have less maturity to the arts than do many of the children (ages 10-15) I know in my school.

So, what do you all think?

[bushido_man96]

Personally, I have nothing against kids earning a Jr. Black Belt, or a Black Belt for that matter. Many organizations have an age requirement for certain ranks, and can control it that way.

I feel that if the child can demostrate the ability to preform the technique, and show a good attitude, then there is no reason for them not to earn it.

Kids can wrestle at a high level. Kids can play Pop Warner football. Kids can play on the national stage in the Little League World Series. Kids can be black belts in the martial arts.

After all, it is just a belt, and it doesn't really matter, right?

[Neo Dragon]

My instructor believes that if the kid can do the tecniques then theres no need to hold them back. Yes it is true that perhaps a kid can't fully understand and perform Karate the same way an adult can; but when they do mature into an adult then they will be much stronger than a martial artist who started as an adult. In theory anyway.

Hope this helps.

[lordtariel]

I think giving kids a "Jr." blackbelt is a much better idea than giving them thier shodan rank. It gives the kids a sense of accomplishment and prevents the older students from thinking that the only reason someone had a blackbelt is because they breezed through as a kid.

[stoneheart]

It's hard to say what the cut off point is. I don't really have a problem with a 15 year old shodan. It's not my choice but I can at least understand it. I DO have a probem with a 12 year old nidan - it doesn't matter if he can do the form or if he knows the physical mechanics of his style.

When I teach professionally, I will have a 18 year old requirement for shodan. I will consider awarding a junior black belt, although it will need to be understood that it is not a "permanent" rank or belt.

[cathal]

I agree with the junior black belt as well. The reason being they've worked long and hard enough for it. In our system a black belt is an advanced beginner so it truly does not matter. When the youth is 18 they test for their adult Shodan and move on from there.

[harmoniouswarrior]

It's hard to say what the cut off point is. I don't really have a problem with a 15 year old shodan. It's not my choice but I can at least understand it. I DO have a probem with a 12 year old nidan - it doesn't matter if he can do the form or if he knows the physical mechanics of his style.

When I teach professionally, I will have a 18 year old requirement for shodan. I will consider awarding a junior black belt, although it will need to be understood that it is not a "permanent" rank or belt.

I think this is a question much like 'Which style is the best'? It's really, which style is best for me considering body type, age, physical limitations or strengths, availability of schools, etc.

Personally, I start kids at 9 earliest, then add a couple of extra novice ranks so it alllows more time for their growth, but still feels like progess. Want to see them be 15 or so before bestowing black belt. My rule of thumb: My black belts should be able to fight off a man (attacker/kidnapper/robber, etc.). It's still shaking out (only started this a couple of years ago), but so far so good. Anyway, that's what works for me.

[bushido_man96]

I have a question about the Jr. Black Belt. Once they meet the age requirements, do you have them test again, paying a full testing fee, and performing the same test they did before? Or is it different?

[Rateh]

It's hard to say what the cut off point is. I don't really have a problem with a 15 year old shodan. It's not my choice but I can at least understand it. I DO have a probem with a 12 year old nidan - it doesn't matter if he can do the form or if he knows the physical mechanics of his style.

When I teach professionally, I will have a 18 year old requirement for shodan. I will consider awarding a junior black belt, although it will need to be understood that it is not a "permanent" rank or belt.

I think this is a question much like 'Which style is the best'? It's really, which style is best for me considering body type, age, physical limitations or strengths, availability of schools, etc.

Personally, I start kids at 9 earliest, then add a couple of extra novice ranks so it alllows more time for their growth, but still feels like progess. Want to see them be 15 or so before bestowing black belt. My rule of thumb: My black belts should be able to fight off a man (attacker/kidnapper/robber, etc.). It's still shaking out (only started this a couple of years ago), but so far so good. Anyway, that's what works for me.

What about bigger teens? Would you award them a black belt earlier? And what about smaller women? Would you not award them? I for instance am 5 foot 2, thats shorter than most 14 year olds, and a lot of 12 year olds....

[bushido_man96]

It's hard to say what the cut off point is. I don't really have a problem with a 15 year old shodan. It's not my choice but I can at least understand it. I DO have a probem with a 12 year old nidan - it doesn't matter if he can do the form or if he knows the physical mechanics of his style.

When I teach professionally, I will have a 18 year old requirement for shodan. I will consider awarding a junior black belt, although it will need to be understood that it is not a "permanent" rank or belt.

I think this is a question much like 'Which style is the best'? It's really, which style is best for me considering body type, age, physical limitations or strengths, availability of schools, etc.

Personally, I start kids at 9 earliest, then add a couple of extra novice ranks so it alllows more time for their growth, but still feels like progess. Want to see them be 15 or so before bestowing black belt. My rule of thumb: My black belts should be able to fight off a man (attacker/kidnapper/robber, etc.). It's still shaking out (only started this a couple of years ago), but so far so good. Anyway, that's what works for me.

What about bigger teens? Would you award them a black belt earlier? And what about smaller women? Would you not award them? I for instance am 5 foot 2, thats shorter than most 14 year olds, and a lot of 12 year olds....

Those are vey good questions, indeed. There are so many variables out there to deal with.