Violence in the dojo

[kilogreen]

I had a situation in my dojo a couple of months ago. There was an altercation between to men, one was a 2nd dan Black belt and the other a Brown belt.

Whilst the whole class was doing controlled one-step sparring i heard a profanity from the other end of the dojo and then the Brown belt came flying down my end and fell into the wall followed by an angry faced Black belt who went to hit him again. Obviously i interjected and calmed the situation enough for the two to explain their issue with each other, i found out from the Black belt that the Brown belt wasn't controlling his kicks or punches and this wasn't the first time either. Both were disciplined and shook hands at the end of the session.

I have never hit anyone who with i train with any type of malice. I have to work the next day and if i want o scrap i can go down town and have one there.

Do you think this is just one of the side effects of so much testosterone in one room or just two people who don't like each other?

Anyone else had anything like this and how did you sort it out?

[Syphax]

I think that violence in the Dojang is absolutely disgraceful. And that one of them was a Dan holder adds even further to the disgrace.

I have never seen anyone engage in malicious violence within a Martial Arts school. I have heard of it only once. Those who were involved were given the choice to be suspended for six months from training or to leave the school.

[24fightingchickens]

That kind of thing happens all the time. When I lived in Japan, there was a young punk who used to constantly try to take my head off. He was a nidan in Goju-Ryu and had just joined the club. He was trying to establish himself and get ranked back in the dan ranks, and he thought taking down the foreigner would do the job.

The first time he bloodied my nose, I let it go. Then it was explained to me by my seniors there that letting it go was a mistake in Japan. I had lost face, and to get it back, I had to take him down.

So, the next time we faced off, I winded him, grabbed him by the belt, and tossed him across the room. I didn't break anything on him, but he got bruised up a little. He got the message. Today, he is a yondan.

Back here, I've seen students of mine do that before. Usually it is a brown belt and a black belt student sparring with each other. The black belt's ego is on the line, and the brown belt wants to score on him for bragging rights. The brown belt goes too hard, and the black belt is a little over-sensitive.

Usually this happens between two very competitive people.

I think there is a mild mental illness that Karate experts suffer from sometimes which causes them to believe it is impossible to lose to someone they outrank, and they are willing to escalate the contact levels and intensity to prove that point beyond appropriate levels.

So, it sounds like you dealt with it OK. I would make them to practice sparring each other without getting upset and make them face each other again and again until it was clear they were over their original spat.

In Japan, this kind of thing is usually handled with violence. If you go after one of the good old boys over there and it looks like you might win, the chances are very, very high that the old boy will pop you in the face really hard or ignore your points and try to take a cheap shot to teach you that it is unacceptable to defeat your seniors. I think that's poor behavior, but it is very common over there.

[Rick_72]

I think its wrong to retaliate with malice within you own school. There are occasions that I take a shot in sparring with a little too much on it (no control), but its usually from a junior belt than I. My response is to let them know after class that they need to work on their control. The next time it occurs from the same person, I usually wind up on them once (never illegal contact, just a little harder my normal controlled strike) to remind them that this is training environment, and it usually jars their memory. I never, ever get upset to the point of taking it out on them physically, especially with junior grades, we were all there at some point. Its a physical activity, so tempers are going to flare at times, its cruicial to at least attempt to keep them to yourself when it gets to the point that you want to react physically.

[Jiffy]

I'm not sure about what it's like in Japan, but as far as I'm concerned, that's disgraceful. The Machado's have a saying "Leave your ego at the door. This is a place of learning".

I try to remember that with all training.

[bushido_man96]

I think I would have to agree with 24fightingchickens on this one. I am a pretty mellow person, and I will let some things go, but in excess, I won't. I only have to cheeks to turn; after that, I'll deal with it.

This is pretty typical in martial arts, and everyone deals with it from time to time. It really isn't that big of a deal.

Here's an example. We had a blue belt sparring in class. He had sparred before, and should have known the rules, as we start sparring at orange belt level. Well, he goes and kicks me in the back. I let it go. Then, he did it again. So, I gave what I got. He got the point, and that was that.

No big thing, in my opinion.

[wolfen]

As soon as the competitive ones in the dojo learn to respect eachother, they should no longer act in such a disgraceful manner. My sensei made it prefectly clear that sparring was only for mature individuals. If you intentionally did wrong while sparring, you would go to a number of extra classes (intermediate level(6th kyu - 3rd kyu)if you were an advanced (4th kyu - 1st dan) student or beginner level (8th kyu - 7th kyu) if you were an intermediate student). You would participate in these classes as a student even if you would normally be a sempai. Essentially by the time you reached advanced, you were going to be a moderator if you were even involved in an altercation (I actually can't remember any while I was there... Sensei Ron and Sensei Mark are awesome that way).

[Fish]

If my own control isn't good, and I hit someone too hard in the head, I always back up and apologise, so they know I didn't mean it and I'm aware of what I did. That seems to help defuse the tension. But there is a lot of adrenaline flowing when sparring, so occasionally people are going to get hit a bit harder than they like.

[wolfen]

I'll agree to both of those statements... it helps a lot if you get hit hard during a spar if the other person apologises.

[RichardHangHong]

I agree with the same views. If you're a senior grade and you're sparring a junior grade then you have a responsibility to teach them and lift them up to your level, not to use them as a punching bag.

However, in the case of someone trying to take your head off, I will most of the time give 2-3 verbal warnings about their control and tell them to ease up a bit. If that doesn't work I give them one or two slightly stronger digs to calm them down, usually catch them in the solar plexus or floating ribs to knock a little bit of wind out of them, along with an additional verbal warning to calm down. If after all of that they still don't settle I drop them to the floor and land a solid gyakutsuki with a kiai when they're lying there and finish by telling them I won't warn them again. It's rare that I ever have to do that, I could count the times I've done that far on one hand and haven't had to do it again in about 2 years. If ever I have to warn anyone about poor control I always pull them up after class and have a quiet chat to make them aware of what they are doing and what needs to change as a lot of the time they don't realise they are doing it, it's just overexcitement and/or nervousness of sparring a senior grade.

It's partly testosterone, but also pride and ego (as someone said, to get bragging rights). This is why you tend to see this thing happening more with men. But believe me, it still happens with women too and they can be a lot nastier with each other.

Just my humble opinion