Kata timing

[Tempest]

I was just curious as to the correct timing to use with Shotokans Heian 1 & 2

Thanks,

Dan

[cathal]

Welcome to the forum, Dan.

If you are a member of any dojo which practices this kata the timing is typically provided in a number of ways. First through training classes when the instructor asks you do do the kata "by-the-count" and you learn the basic timing.

Second, through the documentation provided (if any) which should contain notations which show you the timing. This usually includes a book (e.g. "Best Karate Series") or a diagram on a sheet of paper. (e.g. http://skkp8.samuraj-cz.com/grafika/kata/Heian%20Shodan.gif )

Lastly, you will definitely learn the timing as you practice the kata, learn the bunkai, and allow for time to pass.

If these sources fail I can provide you with a guide of the timings I train with, by the technique. However there is no guarantee that this will be the standard timing your system/dojo trains with.

[Jiffy]

The timing is generally dictated by the bunkai. Think of what the combinations of self defence would be and group each confrontation together, with a pause between them. To some degree, the timing will vary because the interpretations of the Kata will vary.

[Killer Miller]

What Jiffy says is true. But I wanted to add that at this level, each instructor will have a different interpretation of the taught Bunkai, technique, and timing of these Katas.

In this case, and at this particular level, I would generally suggest going with the bunkai, technique, and timing that your instructor is interpreting for you to learn for now. Once you better understand the art, then you will naturally expand to your own intrepretation of the bunkai and timing...

- Killer -

[Tempest]

my current problem is that our dojo as a whole has some conflict as to the timing on the kata, our book says the kata should take 40 seconds, but that seems to disagree with the bunkai that we practice for them

[cathal]

When performing the kata it is always good to keep the bunkai in mind because you can visualize the opponents. You then get a better performance. But if it seriously slows you down, then that is a factor as well. Because you'd be interpreting a slow fight and that could be deemed incorrect, by the sensei or any association officials.

Generally speaking both kata are quick, about 40-65 seconds. Anything longer and you are in the area of incorrect interpretation. When you get to dan ranks you can branch out your bunkai and start getting more creative with the techniques being used, but that should once again not impact the speed of the kata too far.

So in other words don't go to slow, e.g. longer than 65 seconds, and don't go too fast or you will appear rushed.

[Jiffy]

Miller, thanks for that, I should have clarified better.

As miller said, at this level, you probably won't have the level of understanding required to form a good analysis of the bunkai yourself. Your instructor will help you with this. It will vary from instructor to instructor though, and at the higher level, student to student.

[Tempest]

see, our book says that we should be doing them (the heians) in about 40 sec. as stated above, but at least one of them we've got down to 18 and that doesn't seem to be correct

[wolfen]

an exact ending time is not as important when learning and honing the kata. relative time between moves is more important. Once you have that down, move to whatever speed your sensei wants you to be at.

once again, focus on technique before timing.

[cathal]

I believe 18 seconds is much too fast for any kata. One of the major aspects of learning them is to learn, over time, the subtle techniques each has to offer. If you rush it you'll totally miss them.