Tired of Slick Salesmen in Taekwondo

[stoneheart]

My niece recently moved to Austin, where I live. She is a red belt in one of the ITF splinter groups and she wants to continue to train in taekwondo, but there is no dojang locally affiliated with her old group. I've been trying to look out for her by taking her to visit the various dojangs in town to make sure she gets what she is looking for, namely a program that is both fun and challenging for a junior but also provides legitimate self-defense instruction.

Let me tell you, folks, it's hard to find schools that are worth a darn. Virtually every dojang is on the 45 minute class block time and is run by some guy in his twenties, who invariably tell me that their instructor is the exalted Mr. So-and-So who is a 7th Dan. I especially love it when the used car salesman, er, TKD instructor, tells you all about his free uniform special but neglects to tell you how much monthly dues really are as well as testing fees until you ask. Meanwhile, the people in the classes I watch often wear high rank yet have poor fundamentals. I saw a 2nd Dan who couldn't have been older than 12 and there were plenty of reds and red/blacks who had trouble staying balanced on basic line-kicking.

Has it come to this? $60 color belt test fees and games of dodgeball during class? I'm tempted to tell my niece to change styles altogether.

[bushido_man96]

If you keep looking, you should find a good school somewhere. ITF school are fairly popular, so I would think you could find something.

I have paid testing fees similar to $60, and I don't think that is too bad. What you do have hold of is the training...you want it to be good. Try to do an internet search in the area, and see what you can come up with. One question I have is how long do you want the classes to last? I agree that 45 minutes is not enough, unless they are really cranking in that time span.

I hope that you can find what you are looking for.

[stoneheart]

I believe $60 for a color belt test fee is outrageous, especially since this is one of those places that have "Recommended" and "Decided" belt ranks. When I trained in TKD years ago under the Jhoon Rhee/Allen Steen lineage, we simply had gup ranks, and classes lasted 2 hours. I really think 1 hour is the absolute minimum amount of time for a proper warmup and basics practice while leaving enough time to work on forms or other topics.

There are no ITF schools in town - it doesn't matter what flavor of ITF. There are some dojangs that practice the Chang Hon forms, but they are more the cheerleading, self-esteem building types of programs. Martials arts shouldn't be about "Building Tomorrow's Leaders Today". It should be about hard work, sweat, and learning to defend yourself on the street.

[IcemanSK]

I'm sorry you've experienced the "used car salesman" type of school. I run a small program & get the rebound students of a guy like that in my town.

I wish I knew of a school in Austin to recommend. The good news is, you know what you're looking for (& what you're not). I wish you the best in your search.

[Syphax]

I understand your situation. I was, for a while, in a similar situation, until I found the Federation I am currently with. I couldn't be more pleased. Austin is a fairly popular area though; there has to be at least one quality TKD school.

Martials arts shouldn't be about "Building Tomorrow's Leaders Today". It should be about hard work, sweat, and learning to defend yourself on the street.

Why not both? Learning to be a leader is part of the martial arts and is something that should be taught along with other mental curriculum. Of course the physical training is important, but the martial arts are just as much, if not more, mental than physical.

...45 minutes is not enough, unless they are really cranking in that time span...

I think it depends on the rank of the students and their ages. For example, for a group of five year old yellow belts, 45 minutes is plenty and, for some, almost too much. I do agree though that for advanced classes, at least an hour is required.

Good luck finding a school though. Let us know what comes of it!

[stoneheart]

Syphax, I appreciate your thoughts.

Why not both? Learning to be a leader is part of the martial arts and is something that should be taught along with other mental curriculum. Of course the physical training is important, but the martial arts are just as much, if not more, mental than physical.

The leadership training in martial arts is very much an American invention, and I can't say I care for it. If I want to read some Dale Carnegie, I can find the self-help section of Barnes and Noble for myself. I think it's crazy to spend so much time in class on memorizing or chanting slogans or giving high fives, particularly when classes are only 45 minutes long.

I agree martial arts can have mental and spiritual aspects, but show me a guy who goes on and on about being a leader and I'll show you someone who needs some makiwara work. Taekwondo at the gup levels should be all about the physical training anyway. I submit that higher level awareness can only come when you are intimate with your body and what it can do first. Practice, practice, and then practice some more.

[Syphax]

The leadership training in martial arts is very much an American invention

Yes and no. Leadership has always been a part of the martial arts. However, many American systems have placed a higher emphasis on leadership than the traditional schools. I personally believe that learning to be a leader is a necessary part of the martial arts.

I think it's crazy to spend so much time in class on memorizing or chanting slogans or giving high fives, particularly when classes are only 45 minutes long.

I agree with you there. The mental training should be incorporated into the physical training. But keep in mind that the martial arts are mental. A school that teaches only the physical aspects is not teaching the martial arts.

I agree martial arts can have mental and spiritual aspects, but show me a guy who goes on and on about being a leader and I'll show you someone who needs some makiwara work.

I have to disagree with you here. Leadership is simply a part of the arts, as I have said above. I know many instructors who emphasize leadership and are in no way lacking in physical skill. The two complement each other.

Show me a leader who is concerned only with the physical skills and I will show you a follower.

Taekwondo at the gup levels should be all about the physical training anyway.

No! I am not sure where you learned that philosophy from, but forget that! It is about spiritual and mental growth just as much as physical progress. From Day 1, a student should be learning all the aspects of his/her art. Tae Kwon Do is a Korean artform. The Hwa Rang Dan emphasized a warrior-scholar attitude. To say that students should only train their bodies is to go against the philosophy of the very art you are trying to improve in.

Please do not take disrespect from my comments, but I am a serious advocate of understanding the full meaning of the "Arts". Of the Five Pillars of Tang Soo Do, which stems from the same source that Tae Kwon Do does, only one is physical. The others are the History, Philosophy, Protocol, and Culture. You cannot study just one of them.

[stoneheart]

Syphax, we just have a difference in philosophy and that's fine. I do not study only the Korean arts, so there's no question I don't particularly value some of the outward trappings found in American TKD. Let me tell you, my current Goju instructor who is native Okinawan would say something like "Reverse punch not so good - Talk less, Practice More" if he saw the guy that was trying to sell my niece on his Leadership Club. He is a superb karate-ka as well as a teacher and I know for a fact he had no "Leadership training".

I do not mean to imply that the physical aspect should be all a person works on, but I do think it is futile for a beginner (less than 2 years training in my book) to even worry about motivational techniques, etc. A beginner needs to work on his stances and his footwork and then his strikes and distancing. "Leadership training" is out of place at the dojang in my opinion, and it really seems like they're trying to train more multi-level instructors than really teach TKD.

[bushido_man96]

I feel that the premises of leaning a martial art should be martial first, and art second. Now, I don't mean to put a high priority on fighting, because I don't. However, being able to defend oneself should be a direct outcome of martial arts training--from the beginning. Leadership type studies should be reserved for the higher ranked students who show interest in being an instructor or class assistant or coach.

As for the testing fees you describe, I think they are reasonable, as long as the training matches the price you pay.

[Syphax]

Both of us just have different philosophies. As long as what you are doing works for you, by all means, do it.