3 health questions about my karate class

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hi everyone,

(1) i was at my class last night and there was a student who was having trouble breathing, i noticed him having it when we were going through the techniques but during fighting one of the sempais was asked to watch us (as he is 12 and im 22, hes a green belt, im a white) and the sempai noticed him having difficulty breathing and asked if he was alright, he replied that he wasnt and that he couldnt breath, all the sempai did was put his hand over the student belly for some reason and not much else except to breath properly and kia when he hits me, i founds this grossly wrong. anyone else have opinions on what happened? how many karate teachers out there now first aid?

(2) ive noticed in the last couple of weeks one of the other sempais there is overweight, its not that hes overweight that i have a problem with its that when when we start going through our techniques at the start of class hes alright and techniques are good but as we go on, he can barely do the kicks properly, so bad that my kicks are great and im only a white belt (my kicks are still bad though). anyone have any opinions on this kind of teacher?

(3) we do push up on our knuckles, its hard as hell and hurts, but does anyone know of any health problems with doing these? i mean i also like to draw and play guitar and i sure as hell dont wanna screw up my hands.

thanks if anyone could reply with their opinions on the above questions.

[Mike Flanagan]

Before answering questions 1 & 2 do you mind if I first ask what style you do?

Q3. Knuckle push-ups. Many people avoid having children do knuckle-push-ups as they believe they can damage growing bones/joints. Personally I've been doing them on and off since I was 11 and my knuckles are absolutely find. However, maybe better to err on the side of caution there. As an adult I can't see that they'd cause you any problems unless you have some pre-existing condition or problem with your hand which they could aggravate.

Mike

[bushido_man96]

1. I used to be certified in CPR, but have not renewed for some time. I do believe it is a good idea for black belts and instructors. As for what the Sempai was doing, I have not a clue. You'd have to ask him.

2. Being overweight is a problem, and it has been discussed here before. Hopefully it is something that the student is working on, and wants to improve, and that is why he is there. Unfortunately, the only way the instructor can control it is by what he does in class; he could restrict his progress as motivation for losing weight, but that is about it.

3. Doing knuckle push-ups should not cause any problems. However, if you work with your hands, and are concerned about damaging or not being able to use them because they are sore, you may want to address this concern to your instructor.

[sonofkanga]

1.In Israel holding a current CPR certificare is mandatory for all sports instructors.However your discription sounds more on the side of breathing problems.

My advice:you personaly should get a CPR certificate and keep it update.From my experiance,MA is most beneficial for people with breathing problems.

2.OVERWEIGHT STUDENTS,if it is cleared by their physician then they should get all the encouragment possible.Trying to change is the first and hardest step.

3.I strongly advise you to substitute "ken tate" whith "ayubi tate"

finger tip pushups.you may not sucseed in doing many in the beginning,but you will keep the integrity of your joints.

I know this sounds extreme, but "ken tate" does not harden the knukles.

ICHI GEKI;HISSATSU

[Rick_72]

With the child that was having breathing problems, is it a re-occuring problem? Does he have those problems at every class? Could be he suffer's from an asthma, or some other known ailment and has those problems often but works through them. Most schools aren't going to jump into a student that's having a medical problem, if they go sit down for a few minutes, but they have to identify it to an instructor. The question is, after the instructor identified that the child was having problems did they give him the opportunity to sit down or did they tell him to suck it up? And what was his response?

First aid training is good for anyone. Its obviously a good idea for anyone teaching a physical activity, especially those physical activities that involve putting your hands on each other in potentially damaging manner.

Our instructors don't let our kids do knuckle push-ups, which is a pre-cautionary measure because their bones are still growning. There's no reason to stress kids bodies like that. Our adults aren't forced to do knuckle push-ups, however, most of our instructors do them that way so many of us imitate.

As far as over weight instructor's go, well there's not much that can be said about someone that is teaching you something that is supposed to make you more physically fit, if their not in a good state of health themselves. I would say this though, some of your instructors are going to be significantly older than you, and as we get older we tend to gain a few pounds, so be careful judging someone's martial arts ability based off of their outward appearance. Could be those guy's are a lot faster, and more proficient than your giving them credit for. I've had a couple instructors that may look overweight at first glance while their in their gi's, but are also power lifters, so their looks are deceiving. We're all interested in different physical activities, I for one am a runner so I'm obviously going to be thinner than someone who is a weight lifter.

Another point on overweight instructors refer's to actual training time. Many times being an instructor of martial arts makes your own training time suffer significantly. You can spend 3-8 hours a day at the dojo training your students, and receiving very little training time of your own. You can't always do the exercise's along with your students, otherwise who would be correcting the students mistakes. If you spent the better part of your day in a gi training your students all day, are you going to hang around the dojo for a couple hours a day training yourself?

[Empty_Hand]

I think its a good idea for instructors to have and maintain a basic CPR and First aid certification. Also why not have the dojo sponsor a class for other students who may also have an interest in this. Perhaps other people who would not have other wise received first aid cert. would be more willing to do this. I know I would be willing to give up a night of training to take a CPR class with my dojo family.

Regarding the weight issue.. we have a black belt or two at our dojo who are what I would describe as overweight. However they are held to the same if not harder standards of training. Everyone comes to class with different body types, and issues. I say welcome to them all! Focus, and strive to do your absolute best no matter what ones weight, body type or abilities are. Should one wait until all bad attitudes, habits etc are conquered before taking up a martial art.... absolutely not. Comes as you are and take up the warriors path. It has a cumulative effect, time and experience may cause a student to totally transform his/her self both physically, mentally and more importantly, spiritually.

Knuckle push ups... everyone does them or at least tries to do them in our class, regardless of age, weight etc. My 10 yr old daughter struggles with these greatly and it's discouraging to her I know it. Again, all that is asked is just try and do your best. We are trying to overcome negative attitudes here, mind over matter etc. Our martial art is building more complete human beings not just in class, more importantly outside of class.

[ninjanurse]

Here goes my 2 cents:

Some students do not breathe properly and get winded and/or hyperventilate -easily fixed if you are trained to recognize it and can coach them through breathing exercises. Without knowing the students background and details it is hard to speculate what the sempai was doing but I do feel that first aid and CPR skills are a must for instructors.

Any instructor who sets a bad example is a bad example period. I say put your money where your mouth is! If you are going to teach physical fitness, good character, respect, etc., you should be living it yourself.

Knuckle pushups are not my favorite as I have arthritis but I will have to say they are better on your wrists!

[End]

Before answering questions 1 & 2 do you mind if I first ask what style you do?

kyokushin

With the child that was having breathing problems, is it a re-occuring problem? Does he have those problems at every class? Could be he suffer's from an asthma,

i dont know, i go tuesdays and thursdays once at week a random(thursday is my default day if for some reason i cant make it on tuesday) ive only seen him there occasionally (but he could be going once a week for all i know) and ive just started training there, so i cant say if he has regular breathing problems but when the sempai asked him if he has asthma the student said 'no'.

about the overweight sempai, its not that hes overweight that i have a problem with (i dont care, hes a great teacher normally) it just that when he really gets into it he looks like hes about to have a heart attack, seriously.

[Shui Tora]

Okay, I hold a Certificate in First Aid appointed by the Department of Health & Sports, so every 4 yrs I have to renew it.

1.) It is more of a breathing problem, proabaly anxiety or even a panic attack... Having the child Kiai more doesn't really help from a scientific view, and thus might not have any affect at all to the problem! If someone is having breathing problems, sit them down on the floor, their legs bent (preferrably by a warm radioator) or sit them the opposite way to sitting on a chair and have them bend their chin over the top....

I hate it when you have people in charge of classes, and they are not even certified to be... Our "previous" sempai was not CRB checked, not First Aid certificated and did not hold a Sports Instructor Certificate and Sports Instructor Injuries Certificate, after this, we demoted him to Kohi.

2.) "Never judge a book by its cover" even though he is obese, and cannot do kicks, does not mean what you said... In some circumstances, to use a kick is good for self-defence, but i rely more on punches and have my kicks there for a surprsie attack ()...

3.) Kunckle push-ups can be a serious health problem is you haven't conditioned your knuckles... If children are doing the same, then you need to bring up the concerns with the Sensei... THere is no way that doing kuckle push-ups are different from norm.

Hope that helps!

[ps1]

Shui Tora,

I agree. In the US, anyway, you don't have to be CPR or first aid certified to teach martial arts. I have adopted the practice of making both a requirement for black belt.

I agree that doing pushups on the knuckles does not have any real benifits over regular push ups. It is just annoying. But I haven't read any research as far as its serious health risks. I would certianly hypothesize that it isn't good or necessary for children. Do you have any good sources on the subject?

Thanks

Bill