Respecting Younger Instructors

[TKD_McGee]

Did somebody say McDojo™

 

Sorry Bud, but I think that a younger person instructing is out of the question. I, nor most people, didn't pay 70-100 bucks a month to be taught by some kid. We came to be taught by the professional that started the school.

 

You shouldn't be in a position of instructing others, maybe giving tips and helping out beginners, but not instructing upper belts. If that was the case in the school where I went I would leave and find a better place. This did happen to me in a Judo school once, and I did leave.

 

 

[three60roundhouse]

It all depends on your definition of "kid", McGee...is that a person who is young age wise, maturity wise, or what? When my instructor opened his first tiny dojang, he was only 27, i think - and he was teaching some 50 year old men!

[Phantasmatic]

That seems like a pretty good age to start your own dojo. My uncle started a kuk sool won school when he was 18 but it went under rather fast!

 

 

[KickChick]

Just kidding!

 

If your school doesn't have that many students then why is it that you need so many assistants.

 

three60roundhouse .... a 27 year old man is not a kid .... (last I checked )

 

We have a 16 yr. old 2nd dan black that ocassionallly conducts a class. (Which means he "teaches" the entire class from start to finish 1 hour) ..... He is an excellent martial artist and all the adults in our class think his classes are very good! (his dad even thinks so and he's an over 40 green belt!) ....

 

Maybe your "idea" of teaching is entirely different as to how I see it. Our advanced belts often during class time will "assist" lower belts with their forms or one steps , kick/block techniques. Even gold belts will work with white belts. But for a lower belt to "teach" an advanced belt ....

 

 

[karatekid1975]

My new school doesn't allow NO ONE under 21 to teach (unlike my last school), regardless of rank. We do have people under 18 that "help out", but you have to be taking the LI (leadership instructors course) to do so. Part of the course is to assist the instructors, at least, one class a week (for experience). But you have to wait till your 21 to become a full instructor.

 

 

[tsdstud]

I'm 18 years old and practically live at my school. I'm very insulted by what TKD McGee had to say. I want to be an instructor eventually and I bust my butt to do the best I can in teaching or in class. I've been on our leadership team for 2 years now. I don't teach a whole class but am usually assigned a belt level. We've got the 2nd largest ITF school in the country with 5-600 students. I'm not a black belt yet, but my next 2 tests are just pretests for my black belt. I find I get less respect from little kids than I do adults. Some little kids really do look up to me and feel honored when they see me out in public but most of them figure that since I'm not a black belt or adult they don't have to listen to me. Adults know that I'm the red belt to caome talk to with any question on technical things. I get respect from that. I guess just pretty much let it be known what you know.

 

 

[tessone]

I think TKD McGee was referring to being taught by a 15 year old, which is a bit extreme.

 

Also, I think his point is well-taken. How would you feel if you went to university and found that the upperclassmen had taken over most classes and the faculty only occasionally taught? Wouldn't you feel you were being cheated out of your $15-40K a year?

 

Likewise, having junior students (that is, color belts) teaching is not a good thing. I don't mind that I have a brown-black belt looking over my techniques and leading us through simple things every once and a while, but a true instructor really ought to be at least 1st dan, no matter how long they've been on a leadership team.

 

 

[monkeygirl]

Wow! I seem to have hit a nerve here...we've actually gone into 'pages' now..heh.

 

You've all made some good points about younger instructors. However, don't you think that the idea of 'anyone under 18 teaching is a bit extreme' is a bit....old-fashioned?

 

My instructor teaches our adult advanced classes, which I take...I have no hand in those classes unless he needs me to help, say, a purple belt with their kata. I'm no stranger to doing this, I am known school-wide as kata technician (open hand, weapons are a bit different). If there's ever a dispute, they usually settle it with me.

 

No, I don't help adults higher than me unless they need to work on lower techniques. Kids advanced classes are different, though. I have often helped junior blackbelts with requirements below and at their belt level.

 

I can understand that people "signed up for the instructor that started the school". But is that really their decision? Nowhere in our contract does it state "the Chief Instructor will teach every class, not those uppity Leadership Team Members". Our Chief Instructor has a family to support, and works another job. He has trained and put in place a Leadership Team that he can trust to get the job done and do it right. For another thing, most students coming in get their introductory class as well as most classes from that point forward taughty by the Leadership Team. The Chief Instructor coming in is considered a special treat, but not because we're inferior. He has trained us, and we are training students...our teaching is doing no harm...but, the Chief Instructor has a way with teaching that none of us have achieved yet. That's because he's been doing it for 15+ years! We have to be given a chance to learn. We all make mistakes, that's not the point. It's how you deal with those mistakes, learn from them, and carry on that's important.

 

I mean no disrespect, but some of you need to just....lighten up!!!

 

 

[monkeygirl]

I forgot a few things I wanted to address.

 

On 2002-05-08 23:31, tessone wrote:

 

I think TKD McGee was referring to being taught by a 15 year old, which is a bit extreme.

 

Also, I think his point is well-taken. How would you feel if you went to university and found that the upperclassmen had taken over most classes and the faculty only occasionally taught? Wouldn't you feel you were being cheated out of your $15-40K a year?

 

Likewise, having junior students (that is, color belts) teaching is not a good thing. I don't mind that I have a brown-black belt looking over my techniques and leading us through simple things every once and a while, but a true instructor really ought to be at least 1st dan, no matter how long they've been on a leadership team.

Ok, first things first. Isn't being taught by an 80-year-old man who can't keep his head up, much less speak to the whole class, a bit extreme? He's probably 7th+ dan, and an excellent martial artists when he was in his prime, but now it's just a bit ridiculous. What's so extreme if the person is qualified? Isn't it extreme for a 13-year-old to go to college? But she's smart enough, and it's happened, and it works! Not to freak out the non-religiuos people, but wasn't Jesus a bit extreme? A poor carpenter claiming to be the son of God Himself! Not just that, but actually promising people salvation!! How extreme.

 

Second, you don't come to a university for a professor, not specifically (unless you're really anal). You come for a good education. So, if the upper classmen is very talented at teaching, and you're getting a wonderful education (possibly even better than the stuffy old professor), do you really care? "Oh yeah, I'm learning tons, I just wish it were a real professor."

 

"TRUE" Instructors at our school ARE 1st dan. But Leadership Team is a different thing. I usually get the run-down from a "TRUE" Instructor as to what s/he wants me to do in class. Usually then, I don't run the whole class. We split responsibilities, as everyone specializes in something, or needs to work on something else in their teaching. It's a team effort, and we do the best that we can. This is the way our Leadership Team has been since I first started taking classes, and I know it had been going for years before that. True, I am 15, and I teach. But do you know what else is true? People are satisfied, and students aren't leaving in great masses, or lining up to exit the dojo because I'm teaching. They're learning and enjoying themselves! I have watched students start from White Belt, and are now testing for Purple Belt, our first advanced belt. I feel an immense amount of pride knowing that I, in at least some small way, was a part of that journey.

 

I don't teach for the glory of it, I don't teach because it puts a patch on my uniform. I teach for the love of the art, and "art" knows no boundaries. Heck, if elephants can paint, why can't I teach karate?

 

 

[capn_midnight]

On 2002-05-08 23:31, tessone wrote:

 

Also, I think his point is well-taken. How would you feel if you went to university and found that the upperclassmen had taken over most classes and the faculty only occasionally taught? Wouldn't you feel you were being cheated out of your $15-40K a year?

 

This happens all the time in big universities, especially places like Harvard and Stanford. While the professor is completing some research to keep his or her tenure, a student called a Teachers Aid (often just TA) will teach class. Many times this isn't even the most gifted student, it's whoever kissed butt the best.

 

Back to the subject. If the Chief Instructor has made the decision that someone is ready to teach regardless of their rank, EVERYONE should respect that decision. If you cannot respect someone just because they are younger than you, you have problems. Respect is something that has to be earned, but you cannot ever show disrespect. I use the "Innocent until proven guilty rule." If you have been placed in a position of power over me by someone I respect, then I will repsect you until you give me a reason otherwise. Age is not reason enough, age alone tells nothing of a person. A true martial artist will use every experience as a learning experience.

 

"A black belts does not an instructor make." My chief instructor has often remarked how he could take some one for six months of solid training and teach them everything they need to know to be a black belt, but he cannot teach someone to be an instructor. Instructing is not about skill, it's not about age. It's about leadership, it's about maturity. I have always been a leader and a teacher, and my instructor saw that in me. When he promoted me to the leadership team, I wasn't the best technically, but he could see that I could teach.

 

Another note on being "not able to learn from someone who is still learning themselves." Do you think your chief instructor is done learning? Once you hit black belt, your training isn't done, it's just beginning. Everything before black belt was just gaining the tools.