How to train in karate-jutsu or street-karate?

[Sinbad]

Hi

 

I was wondering if anyone had some advice or ideas on how to train in karate to maximise street effectiveness.

 

My main reason for taking karate was for self defence. However, I wonder whether a lot of what we do in the dojo would be effective. Clearly the lack of clinch/close in work and grappling practice is a disadvantage.

 

In addition to my regular classes I will be supplementing my training with a weekly session with a partner where I want to concentrate on more of a 'jutsu' approach to karate. So any ideas on drills or ways to practice would be welcome!

 

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy all the traditional aspects of karate too, and don't want to give up basics, kata etc to go and do just Muay Thai or BJJ.

[Ai Hate]

hmm.. i could be wrong here, but does karate actually have takedowns like BJJ? i mean, AFAIK, karate is a striking art, with some locks and low throws (not over the shoulder ones as in judo). so i would assume that street karate, or lets just say true karate would use its striking techniques. various punches and kicks, haito, nukite, ishigate, etc.

 

a powerful haito rammed into the temples or a nukite to the neck would be enough to get anyone down in 1 blow. not to mention the kingeri (a kick to between the legs..ooh).

 

apologies if my information is wrong.

[Roc]

I do chidokan karate and we practice take downs quite often, though I don't know if they are similar to BJJ or not.

[Taikudo-ka]

Hi Sinbad!

 

I'm interested in this as well... I'm in the same position as you, but as you can see a lot of people don't even know this stuff exists... the chances of me finding it in a local dojo are probably zilch...

 

If you know of or have any books by Iain Abernethy, Geoff Thompson or Patrick McCarthy you might be on the right track.

 

Look at the links I posted under "Karate Grappling - Iain Abernethy" on this forum.

 

Yes Ai, according to Iain karate does indeed have a full over the shoulder throw like Judo (hidden in moves near the end of Pinan Sandan kata).

 

He will put you on a free newsletter if you ask him.

 

A quick history lesson for Ai Hate, what you call "true karate" actually exists, it is/was called karate-jutsu, or originally tote-jutsu in Okinawan (meaning Chinese Hand, not Empty Hand). Descending from White Crane, Monk Fist, and Tiger style kung-fu mixed with original Okinawan te arts, it included effective hand work, low kicks, grappling and throws, as well as some locks and pressure point techniques.

 

A document called the "Bubishi" provides an important historical reference in the development of this art.

 

Anyone else have any ideas or information on this stuff, web links to post. Anyone know of any training places in Sydney, Australia for this?

[Bitseach]

YES! Look at that book by Ian Abernethy - it's quite an eye-opener. I came to karate after judo so I was quite pleased to see some of the grappling moves. He also emphasises the fact that if you are brought down you're in serious poo-poo as it can all go horribly wrong! A good book. Then you'd need to practise with a willing uke and some big thick mats!

[Ai Hate]

On 2002-05-06 08:59, Taikudo-ka wrote:

 

but as you can see a lot of people don't even know this stuff exists...

duh..

Yes Ai, according to Iain karate does indeed have a full over the shoulder throw like Judo (hidden in moves near the end of Pinan Sandan kata).

interesting. i may have some search on this.

[Mike]

I think that any fighting style which ignores throwing or grappling is incomplete (this may be one for some discussion!!) After all - there will be occasions when a punch or open hand strike fails and your wrist is grabbed??

 

Certainly in the short time I've been training in Shi-to Ryu Karate (only 1 year) I've learned of 2 over the shoulder throws - bunkai (applications) of moves in kata Bassai-dai and Sepai. This being the case I'm certain there must be many many more.

[Sinbad]

Taikudo-ka, thanks for all the information, I will follow up on it. I think that considering the enormous number of locks, takedowns and throws in the katas, it is really a shame that we don�ft practice these realistically in most dojos. Especially when combined with karate�fs usual powerful strikes to set up the opponent for the takedown or joint lock! Imagine a kick-punch-elbow combination followed by a throw - ouch! I guess training these safely yet realistically will be a challenge but I intend to start out slowly

[Taikudo-ka]

"Imagine a kick-punch-elbow combination followed by a throw - ouch!"

 

Yeah! That's what I imagine the "old" karate was like... and what made it so effective... instead of relying on one or two "concepts" like grappling, hard striking, etc, it combined everything in one... if your block is followed by a potentially arm breaking lock, followed by an elbow to the solar plexus to soften up the opponent for the throw you attempt next, then after the throw you finish with some stomping kick just for good measure, well, something there is bound to do some damage...

 

Another option if you want to be both "ultra-traditional" and "ultra-modern" would be to get a copy of the Bubishi and study the 48 self defense diagrams it contains. You could try to figure out and practise each one as intended, and I'm sure you'd learn a lot of interesting stuff.

 

I have been doing my own translation and analysis of these diagrams, so if anyone is interested let me know. I've discovered some possible very different translations to McCarthy's English edition in some diagrams, and personally think some of them are more meaningful.

[Radok]

Oh yes, most definitly! I do Okinawan Karate, and every Friday we do nothing but grappling, take downs, and joint locks and breaks. :nod: :nod: :nod: