UFC in the streets

[Rick_72]

I still disagree with this based on the fact that most grapplers at some point in training have been too stuborn to tap and have ended up with popped elbow capsules or other injuries (happened to me once, I'll never let it happen again). Honestly, none of these moves hurt that much before causing damage. You can feel the pain, which is a good indicator to tap, but it is not even close to being unbearable. And the addrenaline of a real confrontation probably makes it not hurt at all before damage occurs.

If you can't feel the pressure of a slow developing arm bar before something gets injured, well more power to you, but I certainly feel the pressure being applied, and when I'm ground fighting (training) there's plenty of adrenaline flowing.

Back to what someone else said here though....if I get into a fight with someone its because there was no way out of it, and they were the aggressor....they can tap till their hand goes numb, if I lock an armbar on them their arm is getting broken, because its happening fast and I'm not trying to submit them, I'm trying to end the fight.

[DokterVet]

If you can't feel the pressure of a slow developing arm bar before something gets injured, well more power to you, but I certainly feel the pressure being applied, and when I'm ground fighting (training) there's plenty of adrenaline flowing.

Like I said, yes I can feel pain in the joint, but it's not severe pain and serves only as an indicator to the impending damage. I have had an elbow capsule popped form a slowly applied arm lock and it honestly didn't hurt much at all until the damage was caused. I was just stubborn because I thought I could beat the guy (obviously the wrong attitude and I have since corrected it). Walk into a grappling club and ask how many people have had injuries from being too stubborn to tap. Probably everyone will have had one.

Back to what someone else said here though....if I get into a fight with someone its because there was no way out of it, and they were the aggressor....they can tap till their hand goes numb, if I lock an armbar on them their arm is getting broken, because its happening fast and I'm not trying to submit them, I'm trying to end the fight.

This I agree with, and was my original point in this thread. These techniques are designed to cause joint damage (or unconsciousness for chokes). They aren't designed as pain compliance techniques. Although to nitpick, armbars generally damage the elbow joint rather than breaking the arm.

[bushido_man96]

I still disagree with this based on the fact that most grapplers at some point in training have been too stuborn to tap and have ended up with popped elbow capsules or other injuries (happened to me once, I'll never let it happen again). Honestly, none of these moves hurt that much before causing damage. You can feel the pain, which is a good indicator to tap, but it is not even close to being unbearable. And the addrenaline of a real confrontation probably makes it not hurt at all before damage occurs.

If you can't feel the pressure of a slow developing arm bar before something gets injured, well more power to you, but I certainly feel the pressure being applied, and when I'm ground fighting (training) there's plenty of adrenaline flowing.

Back to what someone else said here though....if I get into a fight with someone its because there was no way out of it, and they were the aggressor....they can tap till their hand goes numb, if I lock an armbar on them their arm is getting broken, because its happening fast and I'm not trying to submit them, I'm trying to end the fight.

I agree with the way you feel about ending the street confrontation. Especially if there is more of his friends, snap the elbow, and get ready for the next one.

[marie curie]

And at the same time, you can't fully train those sneaky illegal techniques on your training partner. That is the disadvantage that makes sport fighting shine. I may not kick knee caps and punch throats, but I use what I learn with hard contact against an opponent all the time. And on my job - breaking up fights between the big bar guy, his big bar buddies and their big bar advesaries - I have never kicked a knee cap nor punched a throat, but the job gets done nonetheless.

How does the job get done? Do you actually have to fight them, or is it a talk-down situation, or simply a restraint issue? I would think that you would have leagal troubles at some point if you were actually workintg in a bar where you participated in fights all the time, so I'm guessing that it's more of a restraint situation for you, which is different from and out-and-out fight.

I'm not saying that none of the techniques from most martial arts are applicable, especially if you are particularly fast or strong and can, thus, execute them with optimal effectivness, but I am saying that putting those tools (ie. throat shots, goin kicks, knee smashes) in your toolbox will allow you to fight more effectively.

[elbows_and_knees]

How does the job get done? Do you actually have to fight them, or is it a talk-down situation, or simply a restraint issue? I would think that you would have leagal troubles at some point if you were actually workintg in a bar where you participated in fights all the time, so I'm guessing that it's more of a restraint situation for you, which is different from and out-and-out fight.

It all depends on the situation. In an all out brawl - which we have had a few of - where there are 10 or more people involved, we can do what we have to. If I'm by myself against multiple people, I can do what I have to. Plus, the cops on the street are friends of ours, so they usually have our backs as long as we are even somewhat justified.

And actually, it's not different from an all out fight. They ARE all out fighting you. It's actually harder from our stand point, as we are supposed to restrain. Regardless of whether they punch, kick, scratch, etc. you are supposed to restrain if it's one on one or if we outnumber them. Hence my preference for choking someone unconscious. They can't fight that way, and they are out just long enough to get them out the door.

I'm not saying that none of the techniques from most martial arts are applicable, especially if you are particularly fast or strong and can, thus, execute them with optimal effectivness, but I am saying that putting those tools (ie. throat shots, goin kicks, knee smashes) in your toolbox will allow you to fight more effectively.

I understand. I'm saying that I wouldn't count on those though. Especially the groin. It's amazing how little a groin shot hurts when adrenaline is flowing and theheart is racing. I've been kicked there and didn't feel it until the altercation is over. I've kicked people there and they just brushed it off.

The throat is a small, mobile and usually guarded target. Hard to hit accurately. The knee is easier to hit, but if the knee is bent, you aren't gonna do too much to it. in a fight you don't always have perfect timing for such things.

[marie curie]

I understand. I'm saying that I wouldn't count on those though. Especially the groin. It's amazing how little a groin shot hurts when adrenaline is flowing and theheart is racing. I've been kicked there and didn't feel it until the altercation is over. I've kicked people there and they just brushed it off.

Yeh, there is a guy in my class who I've accidently kicked when he wasn't wearing a cup, and he is just one of those people that it doesn't usually bother. We practice doing a lot of techniques in succession, because of this. One of my favorite tricks includes an armbreak, and then a throw by that arm. Each of our tricks must be completed with "punnishment" beyond the trick. In fact, our motto is "It's not overkill, its overskill" This is also really important, I think, because the most trained martial artest can miss or not connect as hard as they would've liked to.

[bushido_man96]

I like the use of the word "overskill." Very nice.

[HG]

anyway what do u guys feel about UFC in the streets ?

They train fighting skills & are well conditioned, of course it will work. The lack of hand conditioning might raise the question of breaking their own hand when striking. I think a UFC/MMA and or Boxer would out last & out punch most people on the street.

[masterintraining]

but what if the attacker has a weapon( which many do) , such as a knife, bottle, stick witha nail throught it etc. ( except for a gun) UFC guys dont train in defence from armed attackers. not to say that UFC fighters wont have any expeirence with it, but just based own the training methods you see them use.

P.S. and can some of u please avoid another mma vs.TMA discussion

[bushido_man96]

but what if the attacker has a weapon( which many do) , such as a knife, bottle, stick witha nail throught it etc. ( except for a gun) UFC guys dont train in defence from armed attackers. not to say that UFC fighters wont have any expeirence with it, but just based own the training methods you see them use.

P.S. and can some of u please avoid another mma vs.TMA discussion

Not very many TMAs have a lot of experience against full speed weapons encounters, either. MMAer may be at a slight disadvantage due to lack of training against weapons, but they will make up for that with their athleticism, conditioning, and experience.

My dad told me about when he was a kid, he watched his dad (my grandfather) take a gun away from a guy and proceed to wipe the street with him. He had NO martial arts training whatsoever, but he did have some fighting experience. So really, it just depends on the person.