UFC in the streets

[BLueDevil]

Very few submissions in MMA are dependant on pain compliance.

The opponent doesn't tap out because it "hurts too much," he taps out to avoid serious injury or unconsciousness.

So yes, they would be very effective on the street.

Which subs would this be? Armbars and triangles and kimuras' hurt

[bushido_man96]

Very few submissions in MMA are dependant on pain compliance.

The opponent doesn't tap out because it "hurts too much," he taps out to avoid serious injury or unconsciousness.

So yes, they would be very effective on the street.

I disagree with you here. When being held in an armbar, you can apply pressure to the point where there is pain, but not breakage. It still hurts, and that is how they know when to tap out; it hurts, and sends a signal that the next level is breakage.

[DokterVet]

Very few submissions in MMA are dependant on pain compliance.

The opponent doesn't tap out because it "hurts too much," he taps out to avoid serious injury or unconsciousness.

So yes, they would be very effective on the street.

I disagree with you here. When being held in an armbar, you can apply pressure to the point where there is pain, but not breakage. It still hurts, and that is how they know when to tap out; it hurts, and sends a signal that the next level is breakage.

I'm not sure you understand my point. A pain compliance technique is a technique that causes the opponent to tap or to react a certain way based solely on the desire to reduce the pain you are inflicting. Arm bars, kimuras, chokes, straight ankle locks, heel hooks, kneebars, etc. are not reliant on pain compliance. In training and competition, people tap to them because they cause bodily harm/unconsciousness, not because they hurt. Therefore these techniques will transfer very well to a self-defence situation where the person may not feel pain due to addrenaline, but will be incapacitated by major joint damage or unconsciousness.

[bushido_man96]

Very few submissions in MMA are dependant on pain compliance.

The opponent doesn't tap out because it "hurts too much," he taps out to avoid serious injury or unconsciousness.

So yes, they would be very effective on the street.

I disagree with you here. When being held in an armbar, you can apply pressure to the point where there is pain, but not breakage. It still hurts, and that is how they know when to tap out; it hurts, and sends a signal that the next level is breakage.

I'm not sure you understand my point. A pain compliance technique is a technique that causes the opponent to tap or to react a certain way based solely on the desire to reduce the pain you are inflicting. Arm bars, kimuras, chokes, straight ankle locks, heel hooks, kneebars, etc. are not reliant on pain compliance. In training and competition, people tap to them because they cause bodily harm/unconsciousness, not because they hurt. Therefore these techniques will transfer very well to a self-defence situation where the person may not feel pain due to addrenaline, but will be incapacitated by major joint damage or unconsciousness.

Well, I think I get your point. What I am saying is that on the street, you could apply them to the point of pain, and try to talk down the assailant, before breaking the arm, leg, etc. Why you would trust someone in that case, I don't know, but you could if you wanted to. Does that make sense?

[DokterVet]

Well, I think I get your point. What I am saying is that on the street, you could apply them to the point of pain, and try to talk down the assailant, before breaking the arm, leg, etc. Why you would trust someone in that case, I don't know, but you could if you wanted to. Does that make sense?

Hmm, that's an interesting point. I think it might work with some holds, but I wouldn't count on it for a couple reasons. Most people don't understand grappling and won't know the techniques you are using on them. They won't know that if they don't comply they will be injured. Kimuras and keylocks/hammerlocks have a bit more of a pain threshhold than armbars and kneebars, but all those techniques will cause injury before the pain really becomes unbearable. (anyone who has been too stubborn to tap at some point in training can attest to this.) With something like a triangle choke, if you only apply it halfway and try to rely on pain/discomfort, they would have a better chance of escaping (the loose the triangle, the easier it is to escape). They might not even understand that they are vulnerable to a choke in that position so they might be unwilling to cooperate.

I think gaining a dominant position, using a few strikes, then saying "had enough?" is a better bet. They will understand a punch to the face more than they will an omoplata.

[bushido_man96]

Very good points, DokterVet. I think I see what you are saying. My point of view comes from the training (although limited) that I have done with these types of hold/locks, and when showing the lock, the instructor will apply the pressure to the point of the joint not bending, and then do that little extra 'tweak' that doesn't cause damage, but lets you know what comes next.

The points you make, however, clear up what we were discussing. Thanks a bunch!

[Rick_72]

Most people don't understand grappling and won't know the techniques you are using on them. They won't know that if they don't comply they will be injured.

I really don't think you need to be a martial artist, mma fighter, or a medical docter to realize that the pain your feeling from a correctly applied armbar is because something is about to tear or break in your arm.

Most joint locks work because they force compliance due to pain or the inability of the person their applied to to counter them, which denies them freedom of movement. In short, they end an attack because the person attacking you is no longer able to continue their offensive action.

The problem with joint locks/manipulations in a street fight is most of them require more than one of your appendages to apply, leaving you open to all sorts of seperate attacks from other individuals. Of course if your a bouncer/security personnel (which I think a couple of the guys in this conversation are) you usually outnumber the attacker and don't normally have to worry as much about multiple attackers as a guy walking down the street does, so joint manipulations are great for you to end a situation and boot the offending party out of your club/bar.

I'm personally very leary about applying anything to an attacker that requires both of my hands to hold on with, or forces me to remain in a certain position/direction. Although if you see a subsequent attack approaching you can always put the guy your manipulating in between you and the second attacker, but that of course depends on your level of awareness of the impending situation which we don't always have.

[marie curie]

do u think MMA like in the UFC can work the same way in the street it dose in the cage.

would these fighters be as good in a club fight or bar fight as they are in the UFC

UFC is a sport, with rules, so no, street fighting wouldn't be exactly the same, but the vast majority of skills needed in the UFC would apply to street fighting (can I punch, can I kick, can I block, can I elbow and knee, am I strong enough that my strikes make a difference, am I quick, etc). In fact, most of the time on the street, you have an unskilled apponent and can use a weakness you see against him more easily.

in the street just because somebody says that they give up or apologizes etc. it dose not mean they are telling the truth, and wont attack again.

When a person in a street fight is armbarred- it is usually not apllied slowly like in the UFC, and is not intended to get them to "give up". It is intended to break their arm, so that they can't hit you with it.

i think in most fights it depends own your abillity to adapt to the person you are fighting not the style, thats why i think almost any martial arts style can do well in the UFC as long as you know how to fight against a person of that perticular martial discipline,and the fighter in particluar.

A proper street fight does not last long enough for you to figure the other guy out.

I have done many martial arts, and though there are a couple of judo throws that I may have use for in a street fight, a coulple things from BJJ and some of the basics from Seiei Kan Karate thank would help, they would most likely not be enough to get me out of harms way with a big bar guy who has big bar fights with his big bar freinds all the time.

Now, Kajukenbo is my street fighting style, designed for street fighting- more of the martial, less of the art, and a whole lot less of the sport. It has prepared me for sneaky "illeagal" attacks and multiple attackers and broken bottles and chairs comming at me

So, I guess some more than others will prepare you for a street fight.

[elbows_and_knees]

A proper street fight does not last long enough for you to figure the other guy out.

I have done many martial arts, and though there are a couple of judo throws that I may have use for in a street fight, a coulple things from BJJ and some of the basics from Seiei Kan Karate thank would help, they would most likely not be enough to get me out of harms way with a big bar guy who has big bar fights with his big bar freinds all the time.

Now, Kajukenbo is my street fighting style, designed for street fighting- more of the martial, less of the art, and a whole lot less of the sport. It has prepared me for sneaky "illeagal" attacks and multiple attackers and broken bottles and chairs comming at me

So, I guess some more than others will prepare you for a street fight.

And at the same time, you can't fully train those sneaky illegal techniques on your training partner. That is the disadvantage that makes sport fighting shine. I may not kick knee caps and punch throats, but I use what I learn with hard contact against an opponent all the time. And on my job - breaking up fights between the big bar guy, his big bar buddies and their big bar advesaries - I have never kicked a knee cap nor punched a throat, but the job gets done nonetheless.

[DokterVet]

I really don't think you need to be a martial artist, mma fighter, or a medical docter to realize that the pain your feeling from a correctly applied armbar is because something is about to tear or break in your arm.

I still disagree with this based on the fact that most grapplers at some point in training have been too stuborn to tap and have ended up with popped elbow capsules or other injuries (happened to me once, I'll never let it happen again). Honestly, none of these moves hurt that much before causing damage. You can feel the pain, which is a good indicator to tap, but it is not even close to being unbearable. And the addrenaline of a real confrontation probably makes it not hurt at all before damage occurs.