How long does it take to get a black belt?

[Syphax]

Thanks.

I agree the masters rank thing is very political.

It all depends on the system and its philosophies.

[Brandon Fisher]

Thanks.

I agree the masters rank thing is very political.

It all depends on the system and its philosophies.

This is very true also

[bushido_man96]

I see what you mean bushido_man. In the end, it is all the about the individual and their mentality. No particular art's system or outlook on progress is "wrong", as long as the students remain students.

That is a good approach. However, I would maybe say that practitioners remain practitioners. But, I do agree that masters can still be students, but some don't see themselves that way.

Same concept. No matter who you are, you should always be a student. There will always be someone who has advanced farther along the path than you have. Find that person and learn from them. If you can't learn, you can't teach.

I agree, except for the fact that you need to find someone higher to learn from. I believe that as you progress, you learn to self-teach. You learn to research and also to discover things for yourself. I don't believe a mentor is required for you to learn more.

I think that Bruce Lee would have agreed with you!

[bushido_man96]

One of the reasons Karate associations tend to self-destruct repeatedly is, I believe, because the leaders usually fail to acknowledge when their members have joined them as colleagues. They try to keep them as students forever, instead of recognizing "graduation" and maturity. As a result, people leave in order to find independence and get out from under the smothering "help" from Sensei.

It is exactly the same thing that happens when you grow up at home. At some point, having your mom bathe you is inappropriate. At some point, having your father ride with you when you drive is inappropriate. At some point, having your parents pay your bills is inappropriate. Eventually, it is human nature to become competent and seek independence. We can either recognize that fact of human life, accept it, and leverage it, or we can get involved in the dysfunctional pursuit of being a dependent child in the martial arts forever.

This is a very interesting point that you make here, and I think it does have some backing. There are so many organizational breakups that happen, and you wonder why, because these high ranks are supposed to be free of their egos, and such.

[Rick_72]

Oh man, biting off a seperate chunk there. Karate organizations are ripe with politics. I think that could have not only its own thread, but its own forum filled with examples of shoddy leadership, and ignorant practices based on nothing more than individual ego and greed.

[bushido_man96]

Oh man, biting off a seperate chunk there. Karate organizations are ripe with politics. I think that could have not only its own thread, but its own forum filled with examples of shoddy leadership, and ignorant practices based on nothing more than individual ego and greed.

I think that you may be right about that.

[wolfen]

that's why it is good to be a memeber of a high-quality low-quantity organisation with accomplished members of several styles who work together for a combined curriculum centered around self-defense (at least for the lower levels) and mental focus.

almost NO politics whatsoever.

To the original question, in my organisation it takes anywhere between 4 and 8 years depending on instructor (they grade differently) and student (some people are slower than others).

average time is right around 6 years.

[Rick_72]

that's why it is good to be a memeber of a high-quality low-quantity organisation with accomplished members of several styles who work together for a combined curriculum centered around self-defense (at least for the lower levels) and mental focus.

In a perfect world, there'd be one governing body for international martial arts. Staffed by proven practitioners of each art, all with the same goal in mind. Credibility of all of the arts.

Unfortunately for all of us, this isn't a perfect world, and people want to feed their families while they gain fame and riches. So we're stuck choosing the organization we want to be associated with, and then attempting to defend its credibility in a world of other organizations also attempting to defend their credibility. Usually that defense comes at the cost of bad mouthing other organizations in an attempt to prop theirs up.

[24fightingchickens]

In a perfect world, there'd be one governing body for international martial arts.

I think one governing body would be a terrible thing! We wouldn't benefit from that at all. Rather, the governing body would have total control and everyone would have to certify with them. Thus, they would never have any motivation to give good service to club instructors or ever improve themselves.

What we need is competition among various orgs. The more orgs the better. Competition gives organizations motivation to better themselves, because unless they perform, their members might leave and go elsewhere.

Having the option to leave and go elsewhere is the only hand we have right now.

Besides, if there were a single org in which all of these personalities had to work together, you'd have 20 lawsuits going on at one time between the board members and the company leaders over finances, elections to board positions, and other politics. Since there would be nowhere to go, the only option for achieving power would be lawsuits and internal power politics.

Essentially, you'd be making a government agency. BTW, once the government saw that money coming in, you'd find national governments absorbing that function with the excuse that the power politics had to be stopped, and then you'd be working with the most incompetent group of people on Earth: the people in Washington.

So, I'd rather just leave things the way they are and have options.

[Rick_72]

I think one governing body would be a terrible thing! We wouldn't benefit from that at all. Rather, the governing body would have total control and everyone would have to certify with them. Thus, they would never have any motivation to give good service to club instructors or ever improve themselves.

What we need is competition among various orgs. The more orgs the better. Competition gives organizations motivation to better themselves, because unless they perform, their members might leave and go elsewhere.

Having the option to leave and go elsewhere is the only hand we have right now.

Besides, if there were a single org in which all of these personalities had to work together, you'd have 20 lawsuits going on at one time between the board members and the company leaders over finances, elections to board positions, and other politics. Since there would be nowhere to go, the only option for achieving power would be lawsuits and internal power politics.

Essentially, you'd be making a government agency. BTW, once the government saw that money coming in, you'd find national governments absorbing that function with the excuse that the power politics had to be stopped, and then you'd be working with the most incompetent group of people on Earth: the people in Washington.

So, I'd rather just leave things the way they are and have options.

You correct, however, I believe I said "in a perfect world". In a perfect world there'd be no heavy handedness, ego trips, price gouging, or law suits .