How long does it take to get a black belt?

[bushido_man96]

Despite what the belt to the left says (I still don't get that), I am a Sho-Dan in Shudokan Karate Do, and it took me six years to achieve. I think that four to six years is a great time frame to make a Dan. However, I know of other Dojo's in my city that give dans after two or three years. Why would anyone do that? Makes me want to cry...

Every one claims that reaching black belt is only the beginning, and that it means you have grasped the basics. If this is the case, then why should it take so long to become a beginner?

It is absolutely true when someone says, "Earning a Black Belt is just the beginning." However, this is meant to convey the attitude that a student should have about their martial arts progress, not to literally say that until you earn a Black Belt you are not even a beginner.

There are two different interpretations here. One is that black belt is the beginning, and one is that a black belt has mastered the basics. I am not confusing the two, I am pointing out one variation. If black belt is considered "just the beginning," then so could 2nd dan, 3rd dan, and so on, because you would never end the journey. However, as with everything, there are first steps, and there are milestones. Honestly, I feel that white belt is the first step, and black belt is a milestone.

However, if black belt is just corresponds to learning the basics, then is a long time frame really necessary?

I see many talk about taking 4 years to get a black belt. Others 6. Mine, took a little over 2. A boxer, no such thing! In the end, it is based on how the person trains, as opposed to how long it takes to attain a rank, that will benefit them the most.

[Rick_72]

Honestly, I feel that white belt is the first step, and black belt is a milestone.

I really like, and agree with, your interpretation.

In the end, it is based on how the person trains, as opposed to how long it takes to attain a rank, that will benefit them the most.

Absolutely true. In other words time means nothing, its the quality of what you put into it that should gauge your progression.

[Syphax]

I see what you mean bushido_man. In the end, it is all the about the individual and their mentality. No particular art's system or outlook on progress is "wrong", as long as the students remain students.

[bushido_man96]

I see what you mean bushido_man. In the end, it is all the about the individual and their mentality. No particular art's system or outlook on progress is "wrong", as long as the students remain students.

That is a good approach. However, I would maybe say that practitioners remain practitioners. But, I do agree that masters can still be students, but some don't see themselves that way.

[bushido_man96]

Absolutely true. In other words time means nothing, its the quality of what you put into it that should gauge your progression.

Very much so indeed.

[Rick_72]

That is a good approach. However, I would maybe say that practitioners remain practitioners. But, I do agree that masters can still be students, but some don't see themselves that way.

I'd be leary of any master that didn't still consider themself a student. If your no longer learning anything, then your journey is over.

[bushido_man96]

That is a good approach. However, I would maybe say that practitioners remain practitioners. But, I do agree that masters can still be students, but some don't see themselves that way.

I'd be leary of any master that didn't still consider themself a student. If your no longer learning anything, then your journey is over.

I agree. I don't see how I could ever stop learning anything new about MA, or myself!

[Syphax]

I see what you mean bushido_man. In the end, it is all the about the individual and their mentality. No particular art's system or outlook on progress is "wrong", as long as the students remain students.

That is a good approach. However, I would maybe say that practitioners remain practitioners. But, I do agree that masters can still be students, but some don't see themselves that way.

Same concept. No matter who you are, you should always be a student. There will always be someone who has advanced farther along the path than you have. Find that person and learn from them. If you can't learn, you can't teach.

[24fightingchickens]

I'd be leary of any master that didn't still consider themself a student. If your no longer learning anything, then your journey is over.

I find that very all-or-nothing thinking oriented and don't agree with it because it is too absolute of a concept. People don't operate in absolutes - they just think in them.

There are plenty of people who are still learning things who might not consider themselves "students" necessarily of another person but who might consider themselves "students" of a field of knowledge. There are plenty of people who have outgrown the need to have a mentor out there. In almost every field of endeavor, people "graduate" eventually to become experts in their own right.

It is only due to Japanese cultural influences, for the most part, that so many martial artists believe that if they are not attached to some greater organization or calling someone else "Sensei" that they are not really working their thing.

I've done Shotokan for a long time. I don't know everything little thing about it, but I long passed the point when my learning curve was steep, and I find it more stimulating to look elsewhere for things to learn. Mostly, when I learn new things about Shotokan, they are pretty small things and I'm not particularly impressed to have learned them.

But right now I find Shito-Ryu and Goju-Ryu kata fascinating, and I am enjoying learning their technical methods and learning more about where Shotokan's highly modernized system came from.

So, I still consider myself to be learning - learning is fun. But let's not be so bold that we assert that martial arts are like rocket science and that they are bottomless pits of information. That's mostly just a warm and fuzzy platitude - it doesn't really play out on the floor where many very intelligent long-time experts yawn hearing the same old speeches and performing the same old kata over and over again for decades and yearn to do something a little different.

[Rick_72]

I'd be leary of any master that didn't still consider themself a student. If your no longer learning anything, then your journey is over.

I find that very all-or-nothing thinking oriented and don't agree with it because it is too absolute of a concept. People don't operate in absolutes - they just think in them.

There are plenty of people who are still learning things who might not consider themselves "students" necessarily of another person but who might consider themselves "students" of a field of knowledge. There are plenty of people who have outgrown the need to have a mentor out there. In almost every field of endeavor, people "graduate" eventually to become experts in their own right.

It is only due to Japanese cultural influences, for the most part, that so many martial artists believe that if they are not attached to some greater organization or calling someone else "Sensei" that they are not really working their thing.

I've done Shotokan for a long time. I don't know everything little thing about it, but I long passed the point when my learning curve was steep, and I find it more stimulating to look elsewhere for things to learn. Mostly, when I learn new things about Shotokan, they are pretty small things and I'm not particularly impressed to have learned them.

But right now I find Shito-Ryu and Goju-Ryu kata fascinating, and I am enjoying learning their technical methods and learning more about where Shotokan's highly modernized system came from.

So, I still consider myself to be learning - learning is fun. But let's not be so bold that we assert that martial arts are like rocket science and that they are bottomless pits of information. That's mostly just a warm and fuzzy platitude - it doesn't really play out on the floor where many very intelligent long-time experts yawn hearing the same old speeches and performing the same old kata over and over again for decades and yearn to do something a little different.

So you reached a level in which your considered an expert in Shotokan, and what did you do? You became a student of other things. If your learning something from someone else, regardless of what you want to call it (its just symantics), your a student, plain and simple.

That's not a narrow minded way of looking at things, its exactly the opposite. I can't be the expert at everything, and it is my, as well as just about every other human on the face of the planet, wish to attempt to learn new things. Unless of course you want to take what you've learned so far, and lock yourself away from the rest of the world with it, never to return. Everyone is always a student in something, or we cease to have drive to do anything that we haven't already done.