Black belt exams

[ps1]

Hi the "with good reason" I dont give out black belts,ok if you've learned what we have taught you, there should be no reason you cant pass this test,A black belt exam is a general reveiw of almost everything physical and mental learned and gained durring your 4 to 6 year stint in my Dojo.This test makes for some tuff tuff black belts and to most people shockingly enough my "Nuggets" that pass are not the stongest people in the room normally the Nuggets that make the grade are the ones who pace themselves big and small body build wise,and i do have an age limit to the test 15 and up for lady Nuggets,and 16 and up for male Nuggets,

everyone under the age limit can test for a jr Black belt-cause blue kids get life gaurds fired.

I guess my question is actually, "what is the test's purpose?" After years and years of training surely you know the capabilities of your students. Surely they know their capabilities. It sounds like you're being brutal simply to be brutal. Just my opinion.

[Jiffy]

http://users.esc.net.au/~aacd/syllabus/karate/KBlack1.pdf

[Jiffy]

Brutal is punishing your students for the sake of doing so.

Tough on them is punishing your students for their own benefit.

If this principle didn't exist, then no-one would do an aerobics session. In this particular case, something like this is not only for the body, but for the mind. The idea is to break them down and see if they can continue to perform. In doing this, the true spirit of the person will show. Can they make it or are they a quitter. While we don't do gradings like this at our school, I fully support the ideas of the schools that do.

[Jiffy]

Nugget???

[bushido_man96]

http://users.esc.net.au/~aacd/syllabus/karate/KBlack1.pdf

That looks like a nice testing schedule. Something I have noticed about Karate is the freedom of choice in doing a form. In TKD, we have a set form per rank, and must know the lower rank material as well, although we may not have to demonstrate it.

[OldSkoulKarateKa]

Hi the "with good reason" I dont give out black belts,ok if you've learned what we have taught you, there should be no reason you cant pass this test,A black belt exam is a general reveiw of almost everything physical and mental learned and gained durring your 4 to 6 year stint in my Dojo.This test makes for some tuff tuff black belts and to most people shockingly enough my "Nuggets" that pass are not the stongest people in the room normally the Nuggets that make the grade are the ones who pace themselves big and small body build wise,and i do have an age limit to the test 15 and up for lady Nuggets,and 16 and up for male Nuggets,

everyone under the age limit can test for a jr Black belt-cause blue kids get life gaurds fired.

I guess my question is actually, "what is the test's purpose?" After years and years of training surely you know the capabilities of your students. Surely they know their capabilities. It sounds like you're being brutal simply to be brutal. Just my opinion.

please no one get offended at what i am about to say.

My students are very well conditioned and able bodied individuals,

it is called a test for a reason,sure i push them,i push them hard,but its not for the sake of brutality,this is the same way i was pushed and im grateful to my various Sensei for their as you call it being "Brutal"or as my assocaites and i like to call it tough love.There is an old saying that I think sums it up quite well"The iron thinks it's self needlessly beat on the anvil, and burnt in the fire...However the sword looks back and understands why."sure...I could water down my test,Raise my fees and pass people just to pass them, like 75% of the Instructors and mcDojos out there but then it would not be a test,it would be a hand out.In the end it boils down to the student.my students know what their getting it to on the onset of a test,they know its a tough test, they go through with it,and pass or fail they walk away with a scense of accomplishment and pride in themselves ,if they pass they know they've earned that belt,if they fail,they pick themselves up,train harder and succeed.but then again unless you've ever had to truly earn your rank or be truly tested,I wouldn't expect anything I've just typed to make sense.

[bushido_man96]

Hi the "with good reason" I dont give out black belts,ok if you've learned what we have taught you, there should be no reason you cant pass this test,A black belt exam is a general reveiw of almost everything physical and mental learned and gained durring your 4 to 6 year stint in my Dojo.This test makes for some tuff tuff black belts and to most people shockingly enough my "Nuggets" that pass are not the stongest people in the room normally the Nuggets that make the grade are the ones who pace themselves big and small body build wise,and i do have an age limit to the test 15 and up for lady Nuggets,and 16 and up for male Nuggets,

everyone under the age limit can test for a jr Black belt-cause blue kids get life gaurds fired.

I guess my question is actually, "what is the test's purpose?" After years and years of training surely you know the capabilities of your students. Surely they know their capabilities. It sounds like you're being brutal simply to be brutal. Just my opinion.

please no one get offended at what i am about to say.

My students are very well conditioned and able bodied individuals,

it is called a test for a reason,sure i push them,i push them hard,but its not for the sake of brutality,this is the same way i was pushed and im grateful to my various Sensei for their as you call it being "Brutal"or as my assocaites and i like to call it tough love.There is an old saying that I think sums it up quite well"The iron thinks it's self needlessly beat on the anvil, and burnt in the fire...However the sword looks back and understands why."sure...I could water down my test,Raise my fees and pass people just to pass them, like 75% of the Instructors and mcDojos out there but then it would not be a test,it would be a hand out.In the end it boils down to the student.my students know what their getting it to on the onset of a test,they know its a tough test, they go through with it,and pass or fail they walk away with a scense of accomplishment and pride in themselves ,if they pass they know they've earned that belt,if they fail,they pick themselves up,train harder and succeed.but then again unless you've ever had to truly earn your rank or be truly tested,I wouldn't expect anything I've just typed to make sense.

Each instructor has a different philosophy on how or what should be done at a testing. There is nothing wrong with making a test physically difficult. However, not everyone pushes it as far as you like. I am not saying that I don't like your style...as a matter of fact, if I lived nearby, I would even give it a shot. I like to see how far I can push myself.

Some instructors like to focus more on material for testing purposes, like forms, self-defense, sparring several rounds, and board breaking. Does this mean that they are not earning their rank? I don't believe so. I don't think it makes it look like a hand-out. I see a lot of instructors like to have some distance running involved as a part of their testings. I don't, because I don't teach the students how to run, I teach them TKD. If they want to run as a supplement to their training, then that is great. It will benefit them in the long run. However, I won't hold it to my students as a testing requirment.

Different strokes for different folks. Neither is necessarily wrong, just different approaches.

In my opinion, students earn their rank in class, sweating every day, giving their all, working as hard as they can, showing drive, determination, preservation, and a willingness to learn.

[ps1]

please no one get offended at what i am about to say.

I wouldn't think of it. Open discussion is what the forum is all about!

My students are very well conditioned and able bodied individuals, it is called a test for a reason,sure i push them,i push them hard,but its not for the sake of brutality,this is the same way i was pushed and im grateful to my various Sensei for their as you call it being "Brutal"or as my assocaites and i like to call it tough love.There is an old saying that I think sums it up quite well"The iron thinks it's self needlessly beat on the anvil, and burnt in the fire...However the sword looks back and understands why."

My point is that the test does not seem to prove anything (nor do any other tests for that matter). You see your students day in and day out. Push them day in and day out. They reach their limits each time they train and manage to push past them. What does the test prove? I only picked your test because it seemed to be the most physically demanding. I am of the opinion that, unless you are under some certifying body and the people promoting you never see you, all tests are superfluous if the instructor has been pushing the student since day one. Certianly Shugyo is an invaluable training tool. But that's all it is, a tool to teach the mind that it can go further than it thinks. Shugyo should not be reserved only for tests though.

Love the quote though, one of my favorites.

Someone above talked about "breaking the student down." This is a technique used in the military (with which I am all too familiar). But the idea behind it is to get the most green recruit in line and on par with a minimum standard of how to act. They break them down so they can learn to follow orders without hesitation, meed physical demands and the mental demands of service. Certainly a student to be promoted to shodan, who has trained for years on end does not need broken down? More importantly, can not be so easily broken down. They already follow the rules, set the example and demonstrate only the highest levels of respect. I believe, if you NEED to break down a shodan candidate, they should not be a shodan.

sure...I could water down my test,Raise my fees and pass people just to pass them, like 75% of the Instructors and mcDojos out there but then it would not be a test,it would be a hand out.

I would hope you never consider that. But I know no hope is required because it will never happen:)

my students know what their gIn the end it boils down to the student.etting it to on the onset of a test,they know its a tough test, they go through with it,and pass or fail they walk away with a scense of accomplishment and pride in themselves ,if they pass they know they've earned that belt,if they fail,they pick themselves up,train harder and succeed.but then again unless you've ever had to truly earn your rank or be truly tested,I wouldn't expect anything I've just typed to make sense.

I propose this question to everyone. If a test is required to prove to the student they earned something, then was it ever actually earned? I have a college degree or two, but the pieces of paper did not prove to me I earned it. Nor did the final exams I took. It's the knowledge I took away from the various courses that is the proof! When someone asks me about Nuclear Medicine or Exercise Physiology, I am able to answer intelligently and professionally. That's the proof.

If not for the journey required, the destination would be meaningless.

[OldSkoulKarateKa]

Hi the "with good reason" I dont give out black belts,ok if you've learned what we have taught you, there should be no reason you cant pass this test,A black belt exam is a general reveiw of almost everything physical and mental learned and gained durring your 4 to 6 year stint in my Dojo.This test makes for some tuff tuff black belts and to most people shockingly enough my "Nuggets" that pass are not the stongest people in the room normally the Nuggets that make the grade are the ones who pace themselves big and small body build wise,and i do have an age limit to the test 15 and up for lady Nuggets,and 16 and up for male Nuggets,

everyone under the age limit can test for a jr Black belt-cause blue kids get life gaurds fired.

I guess my question is actually, "what is the test's purpose?" After years and years of training surely you know the capabilities of your students. Surely they know their capabilities. It sounds like you're being brutal simply to be brutal. Just my opinion.

please no one get offended at what i am about to say.

My students are very well conditioned and able bodied individuals,

it is called a test for a reason,sure i push them,i push them hard,but its not for the sake of brutality,this is the same way i was pushed and im grateful to my various Sensei for their as you call it being "Brutal"or as my assocaites and i like to call it tough love.There is an old saying that I think sums it up quite well"The iron thinks it's self needlessly beat on the anvil, and burnt in the fire...However the sword looks back and understands why."sure...I could water down my test,Raise my fees and pass people just to pass them, like 75% of the Instructors and mcDojos out there but then it would not be a test,it would be a hand out.In the end it boils down to the student.my students know what their getting it to on the onset of a test,they know its a tough test, they go through with it,and pass or fail they walk away with a scense of accomplishment and pride in themselves ,if they pass they know they've earned that belt,if they fail,they pick themselves up,train harder and succeed.but then again unless you've ever had to truly earn your rank or be truly tested,I wouldn't expect anything I've just typed to make sense.

Each instructor has a different philosophy on how or what should be done at a testing. There is nothing wrong with making a test physically difficult. However, not everyone pushes it as far as you like. I am not saying that I don't like your style...as a matter of fact, if I lived nearby, I would even give it a shot. I like to see how far I can push myself.

Some instructors like to focus more on material for testing purposes, like forms, self-defense, sparring several rounds, and board breaking. Does this mean that they are not earning their rank? I don't believe so. I don't think it makes it look like a hand-out. I see a lot of instructors like to have some distance running involved as a part of their testings. I don't, because I don't teach the students how to run, I teach them TKD. If they want to run as a supplement to their training, then that is great. It will benefit them in the long run. However, I won't hold it to my students as a testing requirment.

Different strokes for different folks. Neither is necessarily wrong, just different approaches.

In my opinion, students earn their rank in class, sweating every day, giving their all, working as hard as they can, showing drive, determination, preservation, and a willingness to learn.

the testing requirements i grade by, are based on endurance both physical and mental,self defense,kumite, kata and bunkai, board breaking,ground fighting, in short everything they have learned and gainned under my instruction and guidence, as an added bennefit i currently retain every black belt who has passed my test,and even the brown belts who have failled are mostly all there,like in the PT the guys are used to doing 50 of every thing,they know everything on the test,and if they fail,it is not my fault,its theirs because they are still thinking in Can't dos not can do,and its T-totally a mental thing that they can and will over come,one of the main reasons i push,and put them in a stress filled situaition is because if they cant handle stress in a controlled environment what makes them or me for that matter think they can handle stress in an uncontrolled atmosphere,such as the onset of a street fight,or the onset of a bar brawl{please keep in mind that if you can operate in a stressful atmosphere you have a better chance of talking the other person down or if it comes down to it protecting you self or others),there are black belts in karate have a habbit of not being able to operate under stressful conditions and then blame everything in their environment, on their failure such as,"I was worn out"."I wasn't feeling good" or "my body just froze up"basicly consider it a proactive measure.

[bushido_man96]

Your reasoning makes sense, Oldskoul. Like I mentioned earlier, its just a different route to take.