The True Martial Artist

[jaymac]

I agree being a honorable / good person is essential. I personally am saddened by the people that think martial arts are only about fighting. There is so much more to it. Remember the Okinawans are very peaceful people they fought to save their lives, that is how karate came to be.

The irony is that Im somewhat saddened by people that think martial arts is more about respect/discipline than it is about fighting. Look at any martial arts tournament and tell me whos regarded as being the best martial artist- its the guy whos carrying the trophy- regardless of how nice a guy he may or may not be, hes regarded as the best because he beat everyone else.

I disagree with this only because our school does not go to tournaments. Any tournament that I have gone to was on my own. The individuals that I saw at these tournaments were awesome at what they were set out to do at that tournament. On many occassions I have come out on top because of a tie score and was asked to do a second and different weapons form, or a second and different kata. I won because I practice all the time to be good, not to be good at a tournament. Many of the people I competed against were not prepared to do a different form because they were only good at the one they had come to do, so a tournament isn't a great judgement system on how one person or one style is better than the other.

[jaymac]

I don't believe any martial art was created in the name of self-gratification/crime. People may use it for that purpose, and in my OPINION that distances them from the purpose of martial arts.

As for 'waking up to reality', reality is different for everyone. I grew up in a 'ghetto' and I've seen horrible things happen to people. My reality is different from yours. Yours is different from mine.

Case in point, I have a friend who's a great fighter, a member of a family that has a long rich history in various styles of Kung Fu. He looks for any reason possible to get in a fight and brags about it all the time, and almost always wins. To me, he's a terrible martial artist, but that's not to say he can't fight. He just doesn't believe in the code of conduct that comes with having the ability to seriously hurt someone.

Very well put.

[jaymac]

Brandon Fisher, in my above quote, i was not meaning to quote and disagree with you. I actually am responding that I do not necessarily think that a person who wins lots of trophies at a tournament makes that individual the best.

I think that each style whether it is kung-fu, karate, aikido, boxing, UFC...whatever, has something awesome to provide to the world of Martial Arts and to the individuals who train in these multitude of styles. I take Shotokan over others because I enjoy the training and because I think my instructor is awesome at what he does and gives to his students. That doesn't mean that maybe one day I might not train in another style and give it 100% just as I have given to Shotokan. Everyone has the potential of being the best at representing MA by just going and doing it and passing their knowledge on to others.

[hawkfish]

However, I don't believe that these things should begin with the martial arts.......it is the job of parents to lay down the morals and ethics that we are to grow up with.

I agree with you about it being the parents job to lay down morals and ethics but I also think a good MA should reinforce those values too.

[elbows_and_knees]

1. being arrogant doesn't make you a bad MA. It simply makes you arrogant.

That depends on your definition of a Martial Artist. If you believe that a good Martial Artist is nothing more than a good fighter, then you are correct. If you think (like me) that being a good Martial Artist is also about being humble and respectful, then it's not the case.

2. my skill doesn't entrust me with anything - I'm not spider man. I didn't start training to learn to defend myself or others - I started training because I wanted to. That said, I help others all the time. I've stopped muggings, stopped men from beating women - and that was before my job as a bouncer. That's not because I train though, that's just who I am. I would've helped even if I didn't train. Martial arts training does not require that help others no more does being a cop force you to help others -It's not required for the job.

As above. That depends on your definition of a Martial Artist.

3. being a bad person does not mean you're not a good martial artist. Seriously, some of you guys here should look up a lot of the old masters and how they lived. When I was in CMA, my sigung trained under johnny tsai. He does videos and things now, but back in the day, he was an enforcer for chinese triads. Chan tai san and several others have also been known to kill people for various reasons. Musashi was the greates swordsman in japanese history and earned his fame by killing men in duels. Like I said, we paint this nostalgic picture of what we think martial arts should be and try to conform to it, like we are humans trapped in the matrix. When you wake up, you see that reality is not how you perceived it to be.

Just because these people were great warriors and great soldiers does not make them good Martial Artists (by my definition). It's got nothing to do with "Waking Up". It's got to do with definition. If you believe that a Martial Artist is nothing more than a fighter, then great, hooray for you, but don't be deluded into thinking that most people here share your views. That doesn't mean your views are wrong, it just means that your views are just that.

I'll give you that, but by very definition, martial means war. none of the things you guys are talking about will help you when it comes to that, which what triangle and I are saying.

[elbows_and_knees]

I agree. If its only about how well you can fight then why do we call people martial artists not fighters?

because you choose to. I call them fighters. I've never said "so and so is a martial artist", except on the internet. HOWEVER, in this day and age, there are a lot of people who train martial arts that cannot fight. so I don't refer to everyone as a fighter. I may just say "so and so trains in X style"

like "fighter", "martial artist" is a name we've given to a person who trains fighting arts. If through the years, people referred to them as "flowers", that's what you would call them, because that's what you've always known them as.

What's in a name?

[Jiffy]

Now, another question is can you view martial arts like other athletic activities? Take football, for instance. It can be used to build physical skills, like the martial arts can, and it teaches things like teamwork. However, there are some terrible people out there that are great football players. I think the same could be said for the martial arts as well.

Boxing and wrestling don't teach moral and ethical values as part of their core curriculum. However, we still consider them martial arts. Are they now not martial arts, because we realize this?

These people in football etc that you describe are great athletes, but they are not good sportsmen. We often talk about good sportsmanship. The applies to boxing etc. Some of them are great fighters. Some are great fighters AND good martial artists.

I am not saying that I think the martial arts should not teach morals and ethics. I think we should do these things, because it is the right thing to do. I will teach them. However, I don't believe that these things should begin with the martial arts.......it is the job of parents to lay down the morals and ethics that we are to grow up with.

Can't argue with that! Parents should be teaching these values right from the get-go. Problem is, the majority don't.

[Jiffy]

royce gracie was arrogant going into that hughes fight, but in my opinion he's one of the greatest martial artists on the planet.

Huh?? I have trained with Royce Gracey. He is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. As for Tito, he's a pig. Might be a good fighter, but in my view, he's not a Martial Artist.

[elbows_and_knees]

I don't believe any martial art was created in the name of self-gratification/crime. People may use it for that purpose, and in my OPINION that distances them from the purpose of martial arts.

As for 'waking up to reality', reality is different for everyone. I grew up in a 'ghetto' and I've seen horrible things happen to people. My reality is different from yours. Yours is different from mine.

Case in point, I have a friend who's a great fighter, a member of a family that has a long rich history in various styles of Kung Fu. He looks for any reason possible to get in a fight and brags about it all the time, and almost always wins. To me, he's a terrible martial artist, but that's not to say he can't fight. He just doesn't believe in the code of conduct that comes with having the ability to seriously hurt someone.

I'm not referring to the purpose of the art - that is beyond the scope of this topic. What I'm saying is that those who killed, worked for gangsters, etc. were no less martial artists than anyone on this forum. Actually, IMO, they were more of an MA, if anything.

As for upbringing, I live in a city with three times the national murder rate... I've seen just as much as you. that has nothing to do with my perception of what is or isn't a MA though. This is where definition comes into play. Martial means war, nothing else. Some people adhere to the ideals that monks and the samurai tried to create - adding codes of conduct to the art. That, however is a cultural thing. The japanese have always been big on honor anyway. However, bushido dealt things besides honor, like being cheap and mastering your art. same

[Jiffy]

The irony is that Im somewhat saddened by people that think martial arts is more about respect/discipline than it is about fighting. Look at any martial arts tournament and tell me whos regarded as being the best martial artist- its the guy whos carrying the trophy- regardless of how nice a guy he may or may not be, hes regarded as the best because he beat everyone else.

Martial Arts and Sporting events are two different things.