The True Martial Artist

[elbows_and_knees]

There is a big difference between smacking up a woman and restraining them.... or any person for that matter. You can still maintain all the values of a Martial Artist and be an effective bouncer at the same time.... I've done it. In fact, by keeping your traditional Martial Arts values, you will actually improve your ability as a bouncer, remembering that you are a professional in the business of control, not domination.

the most humble bouncer I work with is one that's never trained in anything at all. he's a nice guy and tries to talk things out first, as he should. Training doesn't necessarily facilitate that. This same guy is also one of the most vicious fighters we've got. THAT is what makes him so humble - he knows how badly he can mess someone up if he has to, and he doesn't want to do that.

[elbows_and_knees]

That is an interesting example. I think that for the most part, being in a situation as a corrections officer or security officer is one of the most difficult things to do, because you are disadvantaged from the very beginning as to what you can and cannot do. In my job, I cannot strike anyone, even if they are being combative. We have to try to restrain people who are activley fighting us, and that is why the playing field is not level. If someone swings at me, and I block and counter out of reaction, I will most likely have a suit brought against me for striking the detainee. Is that fair?? Not in my view. However, that is the way it is, so we have to work with what we can, restraint and control. Of course, we do get some fun toys to play with, too, like Pepper Spray and Tasers. I have yet to pull those out, though.

I don't know about how it goes with elbow's job, but restraint I am sure is still a big part of it. The problem I have with maintaining my martial values in those situations is that I don't think they served me well if I get my face kicked in.

The beauty of restrainting someone is that by applying a good technique and putting them into the ground (notice I said "into", not "on" ) is that you can inflict just as much pain with a non compliant attacker as you could with strikes, sometimes more. Not that I enjoy hurting people, however, I sympathize with law enforcement personnel and their ability to counter a combative suspect and what the law will allow them to do.

those same restraints can get your block knocked off though. Not everyone has the same pain tolerance level, so they may still be swinging while you are applying. I've learned to stray away from those, at least until I already have complete control of them. I prefer something like a chicken wing, where i have both of your arms restrained, or a rear naked choke. One results in you not being able to attack me effectively, and the other results in you being unconscious if you don't settle down. I use chokes and double arm holds more than anything else.

[elbows_and_knees]

I don't know about how it goes with elbow's job, but restraint I am sure is still a big part of it. The problem I have with maintaining my martial values in those situations is that I don't think they served me well if I get my face kicked in.

yeah, restraint is the neame of the game. If the situation warrants - Like I'm getting attacked by three guys, which recently happened - I can strike. But under normal circumstances, restrain, restrain, restrain.

[bushido_man96]

I don't know about how it goes with elbow's job, but restraint I am sure is still a big part of it. The problem I have with maintaining my martial values in those situations is that I don't think they served me well if I get my face kicked in.

yeah, restraint is the neame of the game. If the situation warrants - Like I'm getting attacked by three guys, which recently happened - I can strike. But under normal circumstances, restrain, restrain, restrain.

That is kind of what I assumed, but didn't know for sure. I think I will look into some of the double arm holds and chokes that you mention. The big problem that I have is that I am not very tall, so I think people think they can just mess with me and get by with it. I am a little heavy, so I have some weight and strength, but it's being short that is my disadvantage.

[elbows_and_knees]

I have a similar issue, but it's the opposite. I'm only 5'10, and I'm stocky. I usually hover around 230 - so I'm about tyson's size, but my arms are longer, so they are smaller.

The problem I have is the guys that wanna test themselves. Many of them will comply to what I ask, but then there are the ones that think "hmm... I'm gonna test the big guy and see if I can take him." All of our tall and/or built guys have that problem.

[bushido_man96]

I don't know about how it goes with elbow's job, but restraint I am sure is still a big part of it. The problem I have with maintaining my martial values in those situations is that I don't think they served me well if I get my face kicked in.

yeah, restraint is the neame of the game. If the situation warrants - Like I'm getting attacked by three guys, which recently happened - I can strike. But under normal circumstances, restrain, restrain, restrain.

I am going to start asking some questions about the severity of situations, however. There is a 4th dan in our school who is also a PD officer, and he says that if they start swinging, we should be able to do whatever is necessary to stop them, but I am unsure. I don't want the department to end up in a lawsuit because I do something I am not allowed while trying to protect myself. I am sure they would support me, but I would not want that problem to arise.

But heck, people sue for anything these days.

[ninjanurse]

the most humble bouncer I work with is one that's never trained in anything at all. he's a nice guy and tries to talk things out first, as he should. Training doesn't necessarily facilitate that. This same guy is also one of the most vicious fighters we've got. THAT is what makes him so humble - he knows how badly he can mess someone up if he has to, and he doesn't want to do that.

That's is exactly what it is all about. Too bad more martial artists don't adhere to that philosophy...there seems to be an awful lot of chest banging out there these days. Just an opinion....

[wagnerk]

While it is true that Martial mean war, does this mean that is just mean physical fighting? I doubt it. That's where the Art comes into play, to be able to end something without a physical fight/bloodshed when 2 or more people/groups/countries are ready to explode now that's an art...

-Ken

[Shui Tora]

A true martial artist;

- Knows when to admit his mistakes

- Knows when to back out of a situtation

- Doesn't matter in victory or defeat, but knows when he himself has achieved something

- Does not use MA for nothing but self-defence

- Is truely at peace with oneself

- Isn't afraid to die....

While it is true that Martial mean war, does this mean that is just mean physical fighting? I doubt it. That's where the Art comes into play, to be able to end something without a physical fight/bloodshed when 2 or more people/groups/countries are ready to explode now that's an art...

Okay; Martial does mean war, but when put with art, the meaning is completely different... You are learning an Art of War... Using your body as a weapon is an art... It is how you interpret that meaning...

[ninjanurse]

A true martial artist;

- Knows when to admit his mistakes

- Knows when to back out of a situtation

- Doesn't matter in victory or defeat, but knows when he himself has achieved something

- Does not use MA for nothing but self-defence

- Is truely at peace with oneself

- Isn't afraid to die....

Nice.