The Uselessness of Kata

[bushido_man96]

Ideally that would be the case, but it rarely is. Self defence is something that unless specifically addressed, skills gained in it by doing general martial arts, will be average at best.

Even some average skills can help to get one out of a situation. However, I think martial arts study should lend a focus to these kinds of situations.

[cross]

Even some average skills can help to get one out of a situation. However, I think martial arts study should lend a focus to these kinds of situations.

Ofcourse a basic idea helps, but those average skills that might save you also just might get you hurt or killed.

[James Bullock]

To gain any amount of applicable skill in any endeavor a person has to train specifically to yield specific results.

If you want to be good at Kata...do Kata

If you want to be good at Point fighting...point fight

If you want to be good at defending yourself...train realistically.

Etc..

[baronbvp]

Exactly. I believe the average attacker is an above average fighter or he wouldn't be doing it. If you want to defend yourself most effectively against the most likely threat, then train to get better at the threat's medium - fighting.

[NinTai]

I don't think that both are really necessary. While I enjoy training in both, I think what your needs come down to what you want to focus your training on. Training to fight will help you become a better fighter. Learning forms may also help you with learning to fight, but it is in more of a round-about way. First, you learn the form. Second, you learn the bunkai, which you can't start on until you have a good, at least basic, understanding of the form. Then, from the bunkai, you can move into more applications. You go from a one-step process to a three-step process.

However, fighting drills have their place, as well.

Question:

How much time does a boxer spend in the gym "not fighting" compaired to

the time he spends in the ring "fighting" (sparring or otherwise).

I could ask "What's the point of a speed bag?" You don't hit it the same way you punch in the ring. Not a realistic way to spend your time.

And what about shadow boxing? You have no feed back don't hit anything and can easily fall into a predictable routine.

I won't even get into the preset routines with the punching mitts, or how does jumping rope and all those fancy rope routines help.

Before I get "flamed" that was tounge and cheek, but just like kata, if you don't use it right or know how to use it in your training then don't

blame the kata.

[bushido_man96]

Question:

How much time does a boxer spend in the gym "not fighting" compaired to

the time he spends in the ring "fighting" (sparring or otherwise).

I could ask "What's the point of a speed bag?" You don't hit it the same way you punch in the ring. Not a realistic way to spend your time.

And what about shadow boxing? You have no feed back don't hit anything and can easily fall into a predictable routine.

I won't even get into the preset routines with the punching mitts, or how does jumping rope and all those fancy rope routines help.

Before I get "flamed" that was tounge and cheek, but just like kata, if you don't use it right or know how to use it in your training then don't

blame the kata.

What the boxer does with those exercises is practice timing, gain conditioning, and prepare for their ring fights. All of them build on each other, and the mitt practice helps them to learn the combinations and set ups.

I am not going to disagree with you that forms can be used to help fighting training. What you have pointed out in boxing is the conditioning aspect of thier sport/art. I think that they spend a lot more time sparring than many traditional styles of martial arts spend sparring.

Forms are great. Fighting is great. A good balance is a good recommendation, I think.

[chillindan]

I agree with that, I think from what I have learned in the short time I have been studying Karate is that you need balance in your training. You need sparring you need kata you need line drills.

I enjoy all aspects of training and for different reasons. Sparring alone wont help you develop your leg muscles like kata does with its exagerated stances and movements. But on the other hand kata wont help you with your timing and distance and line drills are great for working on your technique.

So IMHO a little bit of all aspects of MA training will help you become a better fighter. As is pointed out above in previous posts boxers dont just spar they do a multitude of other types of training.

[NightOwl]

I agree with that, I think from what I have learned in the short time I have been studying Karate is that you need balance in your training. You need sparring you need kata you need line drills.

I enjoy all aspects of training and for different reasons. Sparring alone wont help you develop your leg muscles like kata does with its exagerated stances and movements. But on the other hand kata wont help you with your timing and distance and line drills are great for working on your technique.

So IMHO a little bit of all aspects of MA training will help you become a better fighter. As is pointed out above in previous posts boxers dont just spar they do a multitude of other types of training.

Right, but you don't need kata for balance and leg training.

[Patrick]

Hey all,

This has been a long and interesting discussion. At this time, though, I do believe that the thread itself has run it's course. It's a bit of an albatross and pretty much anything to say on this thread has already been said. So, I am going to go ahead and close it.

Thanks.