The Uselessness of Kata

[bushido_man96]

Good point Patrick! Muscle memory can be developed and conditioning can take place in many different ways...including kata.

How often when sparring someone do you execute a punch the same way you do it in kata?

This is a good point, cross. However, training techniqe, much like it is done in football for tackling, can still give help you to cultivate the muscles that will be used in the process of performing the event. It is true that you will not be punching the exact way you do in a form, just like every tackle will not be the same on a football field. However, training the technique will help to enhance the final product.

Not every punch done in a fight will be done the same way, either. They may all be similar, but not exactly the same.

[Patrick]

hehe, thanks Heidi. I actually saw something I have some kind of idea about, so I figured I should jump in and not let the opportunity pass, since another one may never come again.

[baronbvp]

To use a different analogy, I learn a lot more about playing golf by playing golf than I do by swinging my clubs and imagining playing golf. Kata aren't even the driving range and putting green - that's heavy bag and pad work.

I think the reason MMA styles don't use kata is because they don't improve fighting effectiveness or efficiency.

[Red89]

Well the way I kind of look at it.. The Kata is the "fine art" part of Art, like drawing or painting. Its like a foundation, to move onto many other things.

[bushido_man96]

To use a different analogy, I learn a lot more about playing golf by playing golf than I do by swinging my clubs and imagining playing golf. Kata aren't even the driving range and putting green - that's heavy bag and pad work.

I think the reason MMA styles don't use kata is because they don't improve fighting effectiveness or efficiency.

I understand what you are saying here, Baron. However, with forms, you are talking technique, as opposed to application. When you learn the technique, you can then refine it, and then apply it.

By the way, have you ever played on those golf simulators? They are wicked-cool!

[baronbvp]

No, but I'd like to try one. If they are anything like the flight simulators we have, they must be spectacular.

[bushido_man96]

No, but I'd like to try one. If they are anything like the flight simulators we have, they must be spectacular.

They are great, but can mislead you at times. I have hit balls that go sideways, but on the screen, they go straight! It is nice, though, especially if it is a really hot day out, and you don't want to sweat too much. And the beer is on tap!

[Shorin Ryuu]

How often when sparring someone do you execute a punch the same way you do it in kata?

I'm not going to get too deep into this groundhog day argument that seems to cover old ground again and again, but if you do not punch the way you do in the kata, either your kata itself is impractical, you don't know how to do your kata properly, or you shouldn't bother doing kata at all. Some people fall into several of these categories at once, as the fault may lie with the kata, the teacher, the student, or some combination thereof.

There are effective fighters that fight the way they train kata. The common theme among these is focusing on how simple techniques are executed rather than making up fancy explanations for everything. Unfortunately, the trend nowadays in karate (traditional or otherwise and whether they realize it or not) is to make up fancy explanations to compensate for an inability to simply generate power or to make the kata look more glamorous and marketable to students interested in how to fight using kata. This inability to generate power usually has its roots in a misunderstanding or simple lack of understanding of the kata.

It is far more impressive to me if you can end the fight with a single basic technique rather than knowing ten different striking/grappling/pressure point meanings for each of your moves in a kata.

[cross]

There are effective fighters that fight the way they train kata.

Any examples?

It is far more impressive to me if you can end the fight with a single basic technique rather than knowing ten different striking/grappling/pressure point meanings for each of your moves in a kata.

I agree, simplicity is the key, and i personally find that kata is not the best way to maintain that simplicity in your training.

[baronbvp]

It is far more impressive to me if you can end the fight with a single basic technique rather than knowing ten different striking/grappling/pressure point meanings for each of your moves in a kata.

I agree. Are there any karate systems you know of that base belt advancement purely on fighting ability in full contact sparring, and not on ability to execute memorized kata? I believe that's partly how western kickboxing developed (separate from Muay Thai). That's why I left karate for KB.