The Uselessness of Kata

[lordtariel]

I'm amazed this topic has gone so long without degenerating into a flameathon... This is a touchy topic for some people. Some people swear by kata, some think it's useless... to each his own.

[bushido_man96]

I'm amazed this topic has gone so long without degenerating into a flameathon... This is a touchy topic for some people. Some people swear by kata, some think it's useless... to each his own.

You make a good point here. I think that most people try to relate katas to self-defense/fighting all the time, and find that it may not relate like they want it to. It may not be the best thing for fighting, but it is not useless, as far as training physical skills and such.

[kamikaiguy]

Hello Everyone. Please 44 pages WOW! In modern times(Post WWII) kata changed into someting of a dance. I don't really know why, I'm sure everyone has their own explaination. Kata's are a collection of movement that teach common fighting principles. The pattern, tempo and direction of the all have meaning. It is unlocked through the study of bunkai. You need to have a good teacher to understand bunkai.

For example the First motion of heian shodan. Turn left Downward block and step and punch. You are not blocking a front kick and then stepping in to do a lunge punch. This just does not work. You cannot get proper distance.

But take the motion as a defence against a lapel grab. Step left and use the prepatory motion of the Downward block as a strike to the crease of the elbow. I causes the uke lean hi head intoward you. Use the left downward block as a hair grab to pull your opponent head back, also unbalanceing him. At this point if you step foward you now have completly dependant on you fro balance. Now instead of a lunge punch execute a palm strike to the uke's chin while retracting the left arm that is has a hold of his head. You have just broke your uke's neck.

You see why this stuff could not be taught to young school children. Itosu did the right thing.

[cross]

But take the motion as a defence against a lapel grab. Step left and use the prepatory motion of the Downward block as a strike to the crease of the elbow. I causes the uke lean hi head intoward you. Use the left downward block as a hair grab to pull your opponent head back, also unbalanceing him. At this point if you step foward you now have completly dependant on you fro balance. Now instead of a lunge punch execute a palm strike to the uke's chin while retracting the left arm that is has a hold of his head. You have just broke your uke's neck.

Id like to see that....

[stifmeister]

Kata and forms are vessels through which you understand the application and proper execution of technique.

Do you mean people who don't practice Kata do not have proper and good technique?

I would say, unless you embrace bunkai in all aspects, you are not fulfilling all elements of the art of karate. Don't forget karate is a martial "art" (think about the phrase) , to be used in it's purest form. The true karate pragmatist will endeavour to include the kata moves in all combat.

[Symphony-x]

the martial art is only as good as the person training it imo

[Adonis]

With modern technology, kata really isn't that important. You can learn defense moves bunkai and put them on video. Kata was used as a refrence to put moves into. So you can remember them.

I wouldn't say kata is useless, People do it for number of reasons, tournaments, for relaxation, for a work out. but you don't need it for self defense. To truly understand kata you need to know the bunkai, but you don't need kata to understand the bunkai in my opinion. Not with a cam corder, DVD players and modern technology out there, now to take the place of Kata for refrence. At least in my opinion.

[patusai]

Kata...one man's junk is another man's treasure. I feel richer with it than without it.

[baronbvp]

Well put.

I'd rather train bunkai than kata. Why imagine a bunch of moves when I can practice the actual moves? That said, it can be refreshing yet relaxing to practice kata alone.

[bushido_man96]

Well put.

I'd rather train bunkai than kata. Why imagine a bunch of moves when I can practice the actual moves? That said, it can be refreshing yet relaxing to practice kata alone.

Technically, isn't bunkai the "interpretation of kata?" If so, can you really trian one without the other? Just a little technical question!

However, baron, I can relate to what you are saying. After doing forms for so long, I would like to start doing more drilling exercises and self-defense work. That is why I am diving into my Combat Hapkido now.

I still do love forms, though. I will continue to do them. However, TKD wears on my knees so bad nowadays.....