The Uselessness of Kata

[P.A.L]

Wow!! There is defenitely something not right about the shape of his hand and foot, after all of that training. I don't like arthritis, so I think I will avoid that stuff!

Yeah that guy was 74, he didn't look like he had arthiritis though, but then maybe he didn't condition as heavily as the younger guy.

P.A.L- I don't think in a self defence scenario one would switch to a particular style, you just use what works. I wouldn't start performing a kata on an opponent! But punches, kicks, and my fave, eye hitting techniques are all practiced in a kata. With the exeption of some grappling, although there are some holds etc in kata. (Which is why I train in Ju jitsu also!) Allbeit against an imaginary opponent at full speed, they are there, but I wouldn't try 'kata traps'. I do totally agree with you, but the purpose of kata aren't to 'trap people'.

of course it's not like switching from Boolean to fuzzy, each kata breaks into single techniques or sometimes short combinations, so we have a collection of techniques from different katas, then you have some of your favorite games which may not even come from a kata, then you have your boxing knowledge and grappling , if you feel the opponent is capable of countering your moves effectively , then brain automatically shorten the list of techniques and you go more toward basic techniques this gives us a faster reaction. Against a weaker opponent brain has enough time to use a longer list of techniques, for me when the scope gets shorter most of techniques from katas will fall out

for the same reason I only concentrate on less than 10 combinations from different katas for simultaneously blocking and hitting eye/air pipe/side of the head ,that's my game plan. I know my brain and muscle memory is not capable of effectively using 100 of techniques I know from 25 kata I practice.

when i spar with my sensei , i don't think about techniques at all i just react faster and i use simple evading and hitting moves i also try to get into clinch since it gives me some time to think and recover, against others lower than me I enjoy controlling them, trapping them, set a pace and using all the creazy locks/chokes..

I love doing all the katas but I don’t spend equal time for practicing bunkai of all them, I do it very selectively.

[GKRDan]

This is true, like the story of the cat and the fox.

As you know there too many techniques to practice individually as kihon, which is where kata helps. I do very much endorse, for self defence purposes, something I call the 'main artillery'. A smaller set of effective techniques that I train to be as good as they can get, so they can be pulled off as hard and fast as possible.

I am constantly discovering and revising a few different techniques/combos through kumite (as you have mentioned), and consider thier effectiveness and ease of execution. Other factors include how the attacker could approach, body language etc, alot of this is covered in the earlier mentioned books. We don't often pull off a text-book technique when under pressure, or if we have to defend ourselves very quickly and unexpectedly.

Edited October 3, 2006 by GKRDan

[elbows_and_knees]

you don't "fight" from any stance - stances are transitional.

[GKRDan]

you don't "fight" from any stance - stances are transitional.

Couldn't of put it better!

[bushido_man96]

I do very much endorse, for self defence purposes, something I call the 'main artillery'. A smaller set of effective techniques that I train to be as good as they can get, so they can be pulled off as hard and fast as possible.

I agree with this theory of teaching as well. When the adrenaline dumps, that muscle memory is important, and the repetitive drilling of a combination of techniques or locks, etc., will be what helps them get through a situation. I also feel that different combinations are better for different people, due to body structures and such. This is great, because everyone can find out their own, and work it over and over.

[Jiffy]

you don't "fight" from any stance - stances are transitional.

How so? If a stance is one leg forward, then any time you have one leg forward, you're in a stance....

I don't understand your statement

[bushido_man96]

you don't "fight" from any stance - stances are transitional.

How so? If a stance is one leg forward, then any time you have one leg forward, you're in a stance....

I don't understand your statement

When you fight, you probably assume a "fighting stance" if you know that conflict is emminent. However, you normally would not assume a cat stance, a horse stance, or a front stance to fight from. You may move into a similar stance to these while performing certain moves, but you will then go back to your natural stance when the transition is completed.

[Mike Flanagan]

you don't "fight" from any stance - stances are transitional.

How so? If a stance is one leg forward, then any time you have one leg forward, you're in a stance....

I don't understand your statement

When you fight, you probably assume a "fighting stance" if you know that conflict is emminent. However, you normally would not assume a cat stance, a horse stance, or a front stance to fight from. You may move into a similar stance to these while performing certain moves, but you will then go back to your natural stance when the transition is completed.

I generally assume a front stance, but it is such a short and undemonstrative stance that you could be forgiven for not recognising it as such. But it affords me both defensive and offensive potential and the aggressor will generally perceive that and back down.

Mike

[Rick_72]

you don't "fight" from any stance - stances are transitional.

How so? If a stance is one leg forward, then any time you have one leg forward, you're in a stance....

I don't understand your statement

When you fight, you probably assume a "fighting stance" if you know that conflict is emminent. However, you normally would not assume a cat stance, a horse stance, or a front stance to fight from. You may move into a similar stance to these while performing certain moves, but you will then go back to your natural stance when the transition is completed.

I generally assume a front stance, but it is such a short and undemonstrative stance that you could be forgiven for not recognising it as such. But it affords me both defensive and offensive potential and the aggressor will generally perceive that and back down.

Mike

I guess that's the beauty of Shorin Ryu, we fight, and do kata from pretty natural stances. While we do practice some of the more traditional stances (horse, cat, sanchin dachi, etc., etc.), most of our fighting stances are not too long, natural as if you were just standing there and stepped forward slightly, not unlike a boxer.

[daizyblackbelt]

all this talk of stances reminds me (as things nearly always do) of something i learned in my practice of yamanni-ryu kobudo.

in this style, it's not the stances that are important; it's the transitions. that's very similar to what has been said in the last few posts, but is subtly different. The emphasis here is on the points between stances, and perfecting the transition is more important than perfecting the "follow through" or "end point" of a stance.

If you've ever seen yamanni kata performed by an advanced student or master, it's very impressive. with similar foot work they can cover an entire gym length, or only a few inches. it's much more combat oriented than traditional kata. (although arguably this style is far more traditional than what we normally see today).

my two cents