The Uselessness of Kata

[elbows_and_knees]

Taking a page from the old master now adays in this country is not what I am suggesting unless someone wants to chance having an opportunity to polish their techniques further in the jail.

unless you pick an occupation where you will legally be able to test it - security, body guard, cop...

[bushido_man96]

Taking a page from the old master now adays in this country is not what I am suggesting unless someone wants to chance having an opportunity to polish their techniques further in the jail.

unless you pick an occupation where you will legally be able to test it - security, body guard, cop...

That is part of the reason I have become a detention officer. So that I can see if I can successfully apply what I have learned, and to do it within the rules of the law involved in my occupation.

[elbows_and_knees]

same here. between that and competition, I get plenty of real application time in.

[bushido_man96]

same here. between that and competition, I get plenty of real application time in.

It is hard to replace what you learn in these situations.

[patusai]

Very nice post, patusai. You make a very good point about how the masters tested their techniques. Whether it comes down to fighting or randori, these high speed training/fighting with a resisting partner/opponent is where the true test comes in. However, kata practice in a controlled environment, including bunkai training, is a good way to start training for these advanced situations.

I agree that controlled invironment practice is a great way to start training for advanced situations. it may be the only way. Not too many people want to test a new idea the first time in the street because it may end up being the last tme they test anything.

As for being police officers and corrections officers (understanding the field a bit) you do have limintations on your ability to test. Now adays, you are watched closely. In your job situations, although I never thought of it that way until now, self defense techniques and strikes (when within your approved level of force) are much like the old day testing of techniques. After all the criminal element, especially when they are in a situation such as a corrections institution, can be much like a street test...maybe moreso if you consider some of the criminal element have nothing to lose in life and have no quams of beating you to a pulp. I admire your professions. I would not be able to do it regardless of my skill level and even if I were still in my prime. Good luck to all doing this.

[bushido_man96]

Thanks, patsuai. I work at a county detention center, and it not a great big deal, but we do deal with our fair share of domestics, drunks, and we actually have two inmates in on murder charges. The job is safer than some, but still has its inherent dangers. I wouldn't say it is as dangerous as elbows_and_knees' job, but I live in a pretty small area.

[tke010]

elbows_and_knees,

I re-read your posts on this and began to really think about kata last night.

Thank you for that,

lets just look at kata just from a fighting aspect.

Kata is used to train muscle memory (no mind - mushin).

After many repititions, you no longer need to think which moves comes next - the kata just flows naturally.

(beginner belts get the form with one set of techniques, which is then practiced many times over.

After some time, that same person re-analyzes that same form [maybe visioning new techniques not displayed in the beginning] This person then practices the form many times over, but with the newer vision of techniques.)

In an actual fight, you do not have time to think what move you will be doing next. you will just re-act (using moves from kata)

[bushido_man96]

If I have to defend myself, I won't think about forms movements. I will probably think of low line kicks, punches to the face, and simple moves like this.

[Zorbasan]

yes, but all those simple things are in the kata right from the begining. so all those kata repititions will have helped in the basic techniques.

[elbows_and_knees]

elbows_and_knees,

I re-read your posts on this and began to really think about kata last night.

Thank you for that,

lets just look at kata just from a fighting aspect.

Kata is used to train muscle memory (no mind - mushin).

After many repititions, you no longer need to think which moves comes next - the kata just flows naturally.

(beginner belts get the form with one set of techniques, which is then practiced many times over.

After some time, that same person re-analyzes that same form [maybe visioning new techniques not displayed in the beginning] This person then practices the form many times over, but with the newer vision of techniques.)

In an actual fight, you do not have time to think what move you will be doing next. you will just re-act (using moves from kata)

That is absolutely right. That is the purpose of drilling. Now, let's think about a similar scenario. Instead of drilling a kata solo and going over bunkai solo, consider the person who drills the techniques repeatedly with a partner, getting live feedback, then works those same techniques in contact sparring. Who will be more apt - the guy doing partner drills, or the guy focusing on kata?