The Uselessness of Kata

[bushido_man96]

Although we don't do Kata every single class, I am trying to do more of it lately.

I am beginning to do more of it in class as well, to prepare myself for testing.

In our kicking class on Wednesdays, we do a lot of paddle kicking and bag work with partners, and I really feel like I get a good workout with more freedom of movement, so to speak. I do feel that these drills will transfer to sparring more readily than to forms and one-steps.

[Sohan]

I hope this hasn't been said before, but if so it bears repeating:

Kata is karate. Take kata out of karate, and the spirit of the system changes completely.

I personally love performing kata, even though I often question the usefulness of about 60% of the bunkai. Regardless, kata has made me a more agile and balanced athlete and provides health and emotional benefits far beyond what I get from two-man drills, sparring, and bagwork.

Plus, it's fun. I'd do it just for the challenge of mastering it, even if it had no other benefit.

With respect,

Sohan

[cathal]

I hope this hasn't been said before, but if so it bears repeating:

Kata is karate. Take kata out of karate, and the spirit of the system changes completely.

I personally love performing kata, even though I often question the usefulness of about 60% of the bunkai. Regardless, kata has made me a more agile and balanced athlete and provides health and emotional benefits far beyond what I get from two-man drills, sparring, and bagwork.

Plus, it's fun. I'd do it just for the challenge of mastering it, even if it had no other benefit.

With respect,

Sohan

You know, it's OK to not agree with all of the Bunkai. Karate is an art form and just like every other art form it is an interpretation. The whole point is to get your creative juices flowing so that you can fully understand and have a greater appreciation for the art. Once we understand the art and it's foundations we can move on to create our own masterpieces.

[Sohan]

I hope this hasn't been said before, but if so it bears repeating:

Kata is karate. Take kata out of karate, and the spirit of the system changes completely.

I personally love performing kata, even though I often question the usefulness of about 60% of the bunkai. Regardless, kata has made me a more agile and balanced athlete and provides health and emotional benefits far beyond what I get from two-man drills, sparring, and bagwork.

Plus, it's fun. I'd do it just for the challenge of mastering it, even if it had no other benefit.

With respect,

Sohan

You know, it's OK to not agree with all of the Bunkai. Karate is an art form and just like every other art form it is an interpretation. The whole point is to get your creative juices flowing so that you can fully understand and have a greater appreciation for the art. Once we understand the art and it's foundations we can move on to create our own masterpieces.

Couldn't agree more...

With respect,

Sohan

[bushido_man96]

Good point, cathal. The bunkai, the one-steps, the basic self-defense, even the forms, are all great for getting you thinking about what works for you, and what doesn't, and it gives you a base from which to modify, add, or subtract technique.

[Shui Tora]

I was discussing this post with my Sensei for some time now, and in both of our opinions; Kata does play a vital role in Karate...

However, that is not my sole point! Kata is used for many purposes; the use of techniques, control of techniques, balance of stances, distance, thinking of what the techniques actually do as well as learning how to move about in stances with no ill-affect of loss of balance...

Now; take away Kata in a style that is Sports orientated and you'll see that some of the pupils will have troubles in those areas (not all of them, but some) more so than with a style that has Kata....

This is going onto the same lines as Kumite... Some styles accept kumite for training, while others see it as a championship worth fighting for (excuse the pun).

Everyone has their own opinion about this... Consider Bunkai... Now everyone might question someone's perception of how that particular move works... Everyone is different, and so what may work for one may not work for another... Its individual. Why have a system where everyone has to be taught that same exact thing, as like in Bunkai?

The debate of this can go on with many opinions of others outweighing those said.

I consider that Kata plays an essential part in Karate, you take Kata out, what is the system now? Learning how to punch in straight lines? Anyone can do that, but an ordinary person cannot understand the concepts about Katas though can they?

I love performing Kata... It is only until you know how a Kata works that you can truely perform it no matter what the circumstances are (being attacker etc.) No point in learning a kata, then have no clue about what the heck its about! Yes, you do get some styles that "over-do" some of the moves, but you ask them what or how they work, and they'll be able to tell you... (Again, in their perception)

So consider this point; Because we are all Martial Artists, and we are disciplined in our area of being Martial Artists... Why are we questioning the concepts and understanding of Kata in Karate? Didn't we take an understanding of being a MA in the sense that we do not question the origins of Karate... Yes, we will have our own perceptions of how something works, but that is not questioning how Karate works, merely adding something in...

In other words, if our Sensei asks us to jump, we reply "how high?"

Shui Tora

[KamasandSais]

If all you did was sparing and someone came at you with a knife and was going to kill you you dont kick him in the stumach and call point and he suddenly stops. he goes on and slits your neck. with forms you practice the RIGHT way to execute your techniqe. (comes up at top of head X block force knife out of hand (section of palwge chil-jang)

[bushido_man96]

I liked your post, Shui Tora, and I agree with most of it. However, there is one section I would comment on:

So consider this point; Because we are all Martial Artists, and we are disciplined in our area of being Martial Artists... Why are we questioning the concepts and understanding of Kata in Karate? Didn't we take an understanding of being a MA in the sense that we do not question the origins of Karate... Yes, we will have our own perceptions of how something works, but that is not questioning how Karate works, merely adding something in...

In other words, if our Sensei asks us to jump, we reply "how high?"

Shui Tora

I feel that this idea is what causes things to become stagnant, and unchanging. When someone says "do this," and you ask "why," and they say "because I said so," then you aren't learning. You just take something for granted, that it is valueable, and then you take it with you, to the next generation, and you give them the same reason.

Here is a story: A mother is in the kitchen cooking a dinner with her daughter. They are making ham. Preparing the ham, the mother cuts the ends off, and places it in the oven. The daughter asks, "Mom, why do you cut the ends off the ham?" She replies, "That is how my mom taught me." The daughter presists, asking what the reason was for. The mom does not know, so she asks her mother. Her mother replies: "I always cut the ends off of the ham because my stove was too small to get the whole thing into."

As you can see, by blindly carrying on a tradition, and not knowing a backing, things can stagnate, and even become wasteful.

Just food for thought. I am not saying that anyone should directly disobey their sensie. However, asking questions and hoping for answers should not be frowned upon.

[Shui Tora]

Yeah - I can see you point there Bushido....

My Sensei's old Teacher was not the best in Shotokan (so to say) and so when my Sensei came into the world, there was a lot that his master did not teach him... Everything was linear until now, when we move about from attacks...

My sensei will teach us something that has a history to it, that he uses and how it works etc.... Not knowing where it came from, how it works (and so forth) is wasteful, empty and has no meaning....

(I think i should've put that up earlyin my first post! )

Shui Tora

[bushido_man96]

My sensei will teach us something that has a history to it, that he uses and how it works etc.... Not knowing where it came from, how it works (and so forth) is wasteful, empty and has no meaning....

Shui Tora

Yeah, this is kind of what I was referring to. That is great that your instructor puts some explanation behind it. And I am sure that most do, but every now and then...

Edited November 7, 2006 by bushido_man96