kata

[Shui Tora]

hrm, i thought they fixed the double post bug

Opps! Sorry about that... My PC was playing / freezing and so I must've clicked on it twice! Any moderators there, do delete one of the posts!

Watashi no machigai!

My mistake!

[patusai]

Let's see if I can remember... Itosu created some of the Pinan. Although one of his creations was easier and should have been the first one taught, out of respect for his teacher who either created the other Pian or techniques used in it came from his teacher he chose to signify that one as One instead of his easier creation. That is something like the way that I remember it and I am trying to google information to see if something like that is out there.

[Jiffy]

so does anyone know why pinan shodan/heian nidan was originally the first kata? its considerably more complicated than pinan nidan/heian shodan. its something i've never quite understood.

For us, it isn't. Hein Shodan is first for us. (of the colour belt katas. We have "Kihon Kata" before that)

[Jiffy]

I am not sure why it was done they way it was originally Itosu must of had his reasons. I think it first switched around with Funakoshi though.

I think Funakoshi switched them because the first one was harder to learn, and he was teaching children, and not worrying about the applications at the time of them learning. These forms mainly became exercise, and the later forms were focused on for bunkai (I think).

That makes sence (explains my previous post I guess)

[Jiffy]

The 5 Heian katas were extracted from Kanku Dai to make it easier for students to assimilate. Kanku Dai was originally the first kata students would learn, but it was so difficult for beginners, hence the Heian katas.

That's a really interesting point. Do you have some sort of documentation on this? I wouldn't mind finding out more...

[bushido_man96]

The 5 Heian katas were extracted from Kanku Dai to make it easier for students to assimilate. Kanku Dai was originally the first kata students would learn, but it was so difficult for beginners, hence the Heian katas.

That's a really interesting point. Do you have some sort of documentation on this? I wouldn't mind finding out more...

Wiki for karate, and you can find some of this info. I printed out a bunch of stuff, and there is lots of info. Also wiki Funakoshi, and you will get lots of info as well.

[Zorbasan]

damn hein nidan, gets me every time.

i think sandan is easier than nidan, but thats just me

[Jiffy]

Yeah, just you I rekon, I find Nidan easier...

It's just those akward cresent kicks and the slow movement at the top that are hard in Sandan. Nidan is at least mainly basic movements.

[Zorbasan]

yeh, that slow movement is a cow.

i think its because i spent so long doing heian sandan i got used to it (i missed a few gradings)

i always start out with nidan, and go to san dan after the nukite.

[alsey]

so does anyone know why pinan shodan/heian nidan was originally the first kata? its considerably more complicated than pinan nidan/heian shodan. its something i've never quite understood.

For us, it isn't. Hein Shodan is first for us. (of the colour belt katas. We have "Kihon Kata" before that)

yeah, same for us. i was just wondering why heian nidan was originally the first one, before funakoshi changed it.