UFC, Pride, and etc...

[elbows_and_knees]

I was gonna reply, but I don't have to - good post, triangle man.

[okimura]

I think it just often depends on the who's in the fight your watching. I've seen fights that are just brawls between a couple of animals. There's some technique there maybe, but it just becomes a slugfest. And I've seen other fights that are more technical, where technique and form are visible, because it's between two martial arists..

[jj19902003]

i am so going into the ufc when i am older! i know that alot of people say that but i actually mean it. i am taking(going to) school wrestling just to improve that aspect of my fighting and ill have to cut my hair and i love my hair so ill do just about anything to learn martial arts and to get into the ufc! keep a look oput for justin jenkins youll see him (me) one day! srry for the off topicness!

[bushido_man96]

Good luck to you! I really hope you make it.

[jj19902003]

Good luck to you! I really hope you make it.

thanks i appreciate that!

[Rick_72]

As far as kicks taught in TKD or Karate, they're taught speed because you're striking for points as opposed to power. Should you ever find yourself on the receiving end of a Muay Thai kick, you'll know what I mean. I've trained in karate and TKD- their style of kick is thrown AT you and designed to get in and out quick, at the expense of power. A Muay Thai kick is thrown THROUGH you- your opponent is literally trying to break you in half with his leg.

I don't know what style of Karate you trained in, but I've never learned to kick "at" people. When I throw a round house kick, I want to touch spine. When I throw a shin kick, or a knee kick I want to fold that leg like a steel chair. When I throw a side kick, I want to feel ribs snap as I'm trying to hit my opponents heart. Point sparring is a demonstration of technique, that's all. Its controlled striking for several reason, not least of all insurance cost's for a full contact tournament, but also because you can demonstrate good technique and speed without crushing your opponent with all the power you have. I happen to think its harder to land a controlled strike than a full power strike, simply because it takes a good amount of skill to throw a strike fast enough to get through blocks yet hold it short enough not to K. O. your opponent.

As far as why you don't see many TKD, or Karate stylist's in MMA....there are plenty, but most of them started in those arts and then moved on to Jujitsu, or other ground fighting type arts after they established a good basis in martial arts to begin with. Just like the boxers, and Muai Thai guys do. Anyone that frequently watches MMA fighting can tell you that 90% of them end up on the ground, and it pays to have that training and those skills even more than striking, because if you don't you can get submitted in a heartbeat. On a side note, there's plenty of wicked and skilled striking that takes place on the ground in most of those fights as well.

[elbows_and_knees]

As far as kicks taught in TKD or Karate, they're taught speed because you're striking for points as opposed to power. Should you ever find yourself on the receiving end of a Muay Thai kick, you'll know what I mean. I've trained in karate and TKD- their style of kick is thrown AT you and designed to get in and out quick, at the expense of power. A Muay Thai kick is thrown THROUGH you- your opponent is literally trying to break you in half with his leg.

I don't know what style of Karate you trained in, but I've never learned to kick "at" people. When I throw a round house kick, I want to touch spine. When I throw a shin kick, or a knee kick I want to fold that leg like a steel chair. When I throw a side kick, I want to feel ribs snap as I'm trying to hit my opponents heart. Point sparring is a demonstration of technique, that's all. Its controlled striking for several reason, not least of all insurance cost's for a full contact tournament, but also because you can demonstrate good technique and speed without crushing your opponent with all the power you have. I happen to think its harder to land a controlled strike than a full power strike, simply because it takes a good amount of skill to throw a strike fast enough to get through blocks yet hold it short enough not to K. O. your opponent.

I was told the same thing, however, we still used whipping kicks... the whipping kick simply does not have the penetration power of the smashing kick. It's like a whip vs a baseball bat, regardless of your intent. Any thai boxer that spars throws controlled strikes, but they still don't snap them...

As far as why you don't see many TKD, or Karate stylist's in MMA....there are plenty, but most of them started in those arts and then moved on to Jujitsu, or other ground fighting type arts after they established a good basis in martial arts to begin with. Just like the boxers, and Muai Thai guys do. Anyone that frequently watches MMA fighting can tell you that 90% of them end up on the ground, and it pays to have that training and those skills even more than striking, because if you don't you can get submitted in a heartbeat. On a side note, there's plenty of wicked and skilled striking that takes place on the ground in most of those fights as well.

No, most of the guys (the pros, anyway) have a base in muay thai or boxing for their standup. There are few with a tma background that compete today. liddel has muay thai and kempo training, louisseau has muay thai and tkd training... Off the top of my head, that's it. I'm sure there may be a few others though.

the muay thai and boxing guys don't "move on" to bjj, they simply began to cross train. They are doing both at the same time. It's the tma that gets abandoned... liddell no longer trains kempo, and I'm willing to bet loisseau no longer trains tkd.

[TriangleMan]

And Elbows and knees saves me the time needed to reply to that post

[bushido_man96]

With the evolution of the UFC, Pride, etc, it has become more beneficial to have the boxing and muay thai skills for the stand up game, because those arts adapt so well for the way UFC is fought. Brazilian Juijitsu also easily adapts itself to the ground game; it is a very complete art for the ground and locking.

I had heard that Bas Rutten trained in Kyokushin. The thing about boxing, Muay Thai, and even Kyokushin, is that they are all styles with high level of contact involved. This makes them transition well to the MMA competitions.

[Rick_72]

I was told the same thing, however, we still used whipping kicks... the whipping kick simply does not have the penetration power of the smashing kick. It's like a whip vs a baseball bat, regardless of your intent. Any thai boxer that spars throws controlled strikes, but they still don't snap them...

No, most of the guys (the pros, anyway) have a base in muay thai or boxing for their standup. There are few with a tma background that compete today. liddel has muay thai and kempo training, louisseau has muay thai and tkd training... Off the top of my head, that's it. I'm sure there may be a few others though.

the muay thai and boxing guys don't "move on" to bjj, they simply began to cross train. They are doing both at the same time. It's the tma that gets abandoned... liddell no longer trains kempo, and I'm willing to bet loisseau no longer trains tkd.

Once again, I don't know where you train, or what you've been taught concerning Karate (or TKD, I can't speak for TKD because I have no TKD training), but where I train, and what I pass on to junior students is to kick and/or punch through the target. I snap back my kicks when I'm conducting kumite, or point sparring, simply to use control not to hurt my training partner. However, when I'm training on the bag for actual fighting, my intent is to put the bag through the wall, and if I get into an actual fight my intent is to end the fight with every strike I have to throw (with a certain amount of control, so I don't throw myself on the ground if I miss my target). I challenge you to find any fighter (MMA, boxing, Muay Thai, or otherwise) that doesn't use control when their training with a sparring partner....in other words, their not trying to take someone's head off when their training with a live target either.

Cross training is what I meant by moving on to other arts. Not just simply never training in that art again. Very soon I'm probably going to take up Aikido, but I'm not leaving Karate for it, I'm just expanding my horizon's a bit. Moving on, cross training, call it whatever you want.

Also, I don't recall saying that "most" MMA fighter's have a TMA background, I just said there are "plenty" of them. Which there are. I'd be willing to bet you that if you dig back into a lot of those MMA guys early history's, that their young interest's in fighting began with something traditional. And who said Muay Thai wasn't traditional? What about boxing? Those didn't start out as sports did they? My uncle was a college wrestler, and part of his wrestling training was Judo class 2-3 nights a week. That is what I'm getting at. Somewhere in SEVERAL (not all, or most) MMA fighter's background's you'll find TMA roots. Although, it could be argued that all fighting arts, sport or otherwise, stemmed from a traditional fighting style anyway.

All I'm getting from your post's is that your trying to tell me that Muay Thai, Brazilian Juijitsu/Juijitsu, boxing, wrestling/Judo, etc, etc. aren't traditional martial arts, and I think your wrong. Just because their now used primarily for sport by professional atheletes doesn't mean that their not traditional, it simply means that a traditional fighting art has been adapted for the entertainment of others. Not to mention the money making aspects of adapting it to sport.