A little worried about Morihei Ueshiba and ki altogether...

[parkerlineage]

I want to start this out by saying I apologize profusely if I offend anybody, and I am in no way attempting to say that Aikido is evil, or not a martial art, or demean it in any form, nor to say that if you practice with "ki", you are evil or demon possessed.

I recently read through part of a book called something like, "Remembering O-Sensei," by students of Morihei Ueshiba, and I have to say, I was getting a vibe that bordered on demon posession, from what I could tell. Unless I drastically misinterpreted things, students of his said his eyes would be strange while performing moves involving "ki", he could do incredible feats with his "ki", and that he could even project his "ki" into people to do them bodily harm.

As a Christian, I believe that any power that does not come from God comes from Satan; I do not believe that God gives "ki" energy to people. How, then, do other Christians feel about "ki"? How do non-Christians feel about it? Especially in regard to Morihei Ueshiba, which is the main point of this tirade.

Again, I apologize if I offended anyone.

Humbly;

Parkerlineage

[bushido_man96]

Hmmm, very interesting. I feel that we all have an energy inside of us. If we didn't, I don't think we could function. Call it life force, call it a soul, but I think it is the same thing. This may also be ki, in the Japanese sense of the word. I am not saying it is, but it could be. As far as being able to transfer this energy, I don't know what to think about that.

Why the far east contains the only cultures to discover ki is, I have no idea. There were some very fierce warriors that came from Western cultures throughout the ages, and they are just as viable as any far eastern warrior you could name. I think it has to do with their culture's perceptions of things. Whether it is true or not, who can say, but they precieve it as such.

Maybe Ueshiba was bodering on a blind rage that he was going into. Or, it could have been the direct opposite of blind rage, which would be total focus. Who knows, maybe he just had freaky eyes.

[alsey]

i am, for the sake of argument, a buddhist (i'm not actually, but my beliefs are similar) so things like demons and gods don't make sense to me, but i think ki is a perfectly natural thing and nothing for anyone to get worked up about. it is available to anyone and it doesn't require belief in the supernatural; whether that's god, satan, or undefined mystical energies.

people who are very proficient with ki related techniques can and do take on a certain 'aura', and you can see a change. you might perceive this as 'strange eyes' or something, and they can do stuff like break things that they couldn't normally break ('inredible feats'). there is nothing supernatural about this; its just a particular state of mind that influences the body in a certain way. another example: anger. when someone gets angry, you can see it. their whole body language, or 'aura' if you like, changes. with great anger, people can do things they can't normally do (like break stuff). another one; depression. if someone is really depressed you can see it in them. hundreds of years ago people would have said it was a demon, but now its a recognised medical condition. i suspect in the future the science/medicine of ki will be understood a lot better and the whole supernatural thing surrounding it will dissapear.

as for projecting ki at people to hurt them, i don't really know what is meant here. if these guys are saying that their master could physically harm people without touching them or something, then i simply don't believe it. someone with strong ki can be very intimidating, just as someone who is very angry can be very intimidating. you can in theory win a fight with ki alone, but you can't, for example, make someone bleed just by staring at them.

finally, aikido and many other arts were developed in a culture whose popular beliefs were directly contrary to those of christianity, so don't expect them to 'mix' well with christianity. i'm not saying a christian cannot practice aikido, but you shouldn't go into it expecting the two cultures to fit together without problems.

Edited August 21, 2006 by alsey

[alsey]

Why the far east contains the only cultures to discover ki is, I have no idea. There were some very fierce warriors that came from Western cultures throughout the ages, and they are just as viable as any far eastern warrior you could name. I think it has to do with their culture's perceptions of things. Whether it is true or not, who can say, but they precieve it as such.

far eastern cultures practiced meditative religions. meditation is really just a very focused breathing exercise, and breath is also the basis of ki 'manipulation'. the two go together hand in hand.

[Anbu Alex]

Im a Zen Buhhdist and i was trying to explain to a Christian friend about ki

an i told them that think of when the apostsles(sp?) when they recived the holy spirit almost like a energy that completed them and gave the confidence to face prejudice its the same feeling of ki i think with o sensei he seemed to boder on a blind rage cause he was giving off the killer intent thats in all old budo martial arts inyo(yin and yang)

[Bluetulipx]

I was drawn to Aikido because of ki. I had been reading books and travelling and chatting with people at airports (all kinds of interesting conversations there) and I realized that I wasn't using my energy properly (although I am sure I didn't use those words at the time).

Parkerlineage, you have stated:

As a Christian, I believe that any power that does not come from God comes from Satan; I do not believe that God gives "ki" energy to people.

People have said that ki is like energy. What if it is also like air? Who created air? Is it good or bad? We know that we need it to be able to function and you might have problems if you don't have enough air. We can't see air, but we know it is there and people are very comfortable with the idea.

From my understanding, ki is focused around the gut area and sometimes people might refer to a gut feeling when perhaps they are having a ki feeling. I don't know if they quite relate but I think might be a connection.

Also, I have learned to have a positive energy feeling from my gut area and also a positive energy leave my finger tips. To me, this is ki and if I put my hands over my stomach area I can create a ki ball. It is difficult to describe the sensations accurately, but sometimes I feel energy around my hands when I move them. Also, if you have a basic understanding of particle physics, I think that helps to describe how the energy moves around.

These are just my observations on it though.

[Kenpo5th]

I see Ki/Chi as a living embodiment of the Holy Spirit. Just my take on it as a Catholic MA'er.

[MizuRyu]

I think a good example of Qi is nothing more than energy. Energy comes in so many forms; forms you can see, forms you can't, kenetic, potential, radiation, light, heat... it's in everything. Humans have an amazing ability to consciously generate power by focusing their energy into a single point at a split second in time. A good side kick exerts about 3000 pounds of force in pressure, in kenetic energy. Suppose someone found a way to move this through the air? Through objects? Or through a medium we can't fathom (space, the plane on which light travels, things that don't 'exist'). Humankind has a very strict set of guidelines in their thought process. We're STILL getting over the 'eternity gap', coming to terms with the meaning of eternity, even though we KNOW it exists, we still rationalize it. Same with Qi in my belief. It is nothing more than nature.

Ueshiba on the other hand was a very peaceful person, a model example of a human being. I doubt that he would have any 'evil' intention or intervention. He was just an old man who knew a lot about what he was doing.

[alsey]

Also, if you have a basic understanding of particle physics, I think that helps to describe how the energy moves around.

with respect, particle physics has nothing to do with it.

[alsey]

A good side kick exerts about 3000 pounds of force in pressure, in kenetic energy. Suppose someone found a way to move this through the air? Through objects? Or through a medium we can't fathom (space, the plane on which light travels, things that don't 'exist').

but no one's found a way, and there's no conceivable way that could happen. personally i think its mostly psychological. someone with strong ki can be seen to have strong ki, and that induces psychological effects in whoever is observing them. in theory, these effects can be enough to make someone back away or even run away screaming or something. but there's nothing flying through the air; its in the mind. i'd like to see someone try to use ki on a rock, for example.