Dojo concerns: seeking advice

[shinnekodo]

I have some concerns that I would like to share in hopes of receiving some sound advice.

6 yrs ago, the head of my style "retired" & or stepped down and gave the system to my instructor.

Prior to his retirement and for 6 yrs after his retirement, there was little or no contact between he (the former system head) & our school.

About 2 yrs after he stepped down, we reorganized the system and renamed it (it was formerly named after him which never did seem right to those at my school). The new name is of a more generic nature, not named after one man. Plus, there were philosophical differences as well in how the system should be practiced.

One of the major changes was the number of kata taught (near 30). In our opinion, we felt that was too many for anyone to attempt to master. So, in an effort to remedy this situation, we cut back on the # of kata, attempting to go in a more traditional direction (this is a style of goju). In traditional goju there are only 12 kata, so we cut back the # of katas to 12 (plus 5 preparatory katas called pinons in our style) and attempted to maintain a traditional focus ( which means we kept our versions of the traditional goju kata that we had which was 9 of the traditional 12 and went with 3 others to reach a final total of 12 katas). This meant dropping from our system about 11 other katas which were fine katas in their own right, there were just too many.

These changes occurred 2 yrs after the system head left and we practiced in this fashion for 4+ yrs and never heard a word from him in all 6 of those yrs (as well as not too often before he retired).

Now, 6 1/2 yrs later he has decided to return to the scene. At first, we did not tell him about the situation (which, some of us felt we should do, but our sensei, the new system head, did not want to hurt his feelings).

Inevitably, the old system head discovered the situation. Now, he is not exactly happy with us here in my dojo. He contacted my sensei last night and told him a thing or two. As it seems to be going at the moment, myself and a fellow black belt get the blame for these series of events since the ideas for the changes originated with us. Our sensei is being excused at the moment because he was being taken advantage of by my fellow black belt and I the old system head claims (during the last 6+ yrs, my sensei has been thru some hard times, his wife and mother died, he has a very demanding job which has limited his dojo time as well, in essence, my fellow black belt and I have done the majority of the teaching at the dojo in his various absences, these are some of the things that supposedly allowed us to take advantage of him according to the old "boss.") The old system head has "put out the word" against myself and my fellow black belt over this situation. I am not yet certain as to what that means, nor do I know my own status in my own style that I have practiced diligently for 13+ yrs now.

Well, this post is too long now as it is, so I will stop. If anyone has read to this point and has some sound advice, I would be appreciative. My own immediate martial arts future is up in the air due to these events.

Thanks for reading.

[TigerDude]

Does the old system ehad have standing in the dojo? Does he have ownership, etc? I would think that the normal way it works is that once a person retires, he gives up rights to future decisions & direction.

[alsey]

from what i gathered, the old guy retired and passed on his control. so what gives him the right to suddenly start telling people what to do? i don't see why you or your sensei can't tell him to go away if he's being disruptive to the school and your training. if your sensei is the current head of the system, then surely its up to him what your status is and how you train.

[parkerlineage]

Masters come and go, and they have to understand that no matter what they did, it will be changed twenty, ten, five, or even one year from when they leave. If he refuses to accept that, it's his deal. If your reputation is tarnished, and you're good enough, people won't care, I would think.

[cathal]

In coming back the old head may have been trying to revive some of the old training or social interactions. Think of it though, this is something he's probably trained in for most of his life, or at least a good chunk of it. It's natural to feel possessive of something like that.

What really bothers me is the lack of respect and loyalty your current head has for you. It seems like he's put all of the blame onto you and your colleague. Instead of defending the decisions he's allowed to occur, and moving on in that fashion, he's simply laid blame so that he wouldn't get yelled at. It is a complete lack of regard for you and your friend. That's my two pennies on that.

So, as for advice? Well, I'd suggest having a sit down with the current head, this old head, and your friend. As well as with any others who hold responsibility for the policy of the system. Figure it all out in one meeting, and if you are all even tempered enough, and are willing t hear one another out...then it should work out.

EDIT:

So why was it no one saw fit to inform your old head of the changes? Maybe it's root of all the anger.

[bushido_man96]

First of all, I think your Sensei should have went to bat for you. Secondly, this is the typical political power trip that tends to happen so often in the martial arts community. You have some options, but you may not like them.

1. Talk to the former head man, and see if, firstly, you can talk to each other on a rational basis. If the two of you cannot, then the process ends here.

2. If you can talk, find out what his intentions are, and if he plans on leaving again. In my opinion, the martial arts is not a 'come and go as you please' endeavor. Stability is nice.

3. If all else fails, and you feel that you have the experience, rank, and capability, take your style and start your own dojo. This is kind of a last resort, and may sound kind of harsh, but if I got dumped by my Sensei, and was taking the brunt of persecution from the 'former' head guy, I think that my welcome may have unfortunately been worn out, and choose to leave.

[shinnekodo]

The old system head did retire, but he did not like the overall direction of the system in terms of the current leadership. So, I am assuming, he got back into it to "rally the cause" so to speak.

He was not informed of the changes initially, because my sensei did not want to "hurt his feelings", although my colleague and I felt that he should be told.

When we made the changes, it was with our current sensei's approval and with the understanding that the old head was retired and our sensei had the "authority" to make such changes. There had been little or no contact between the old head and the new head in regards to martial arts. We were all taken somewhat by surprise at the old head's return.

As to why my sensei is letting my friend and I take the heat, I can only conjecture. The old sensei is his sensei and personal friend. He has not yet been put in a position where he has to choose between his old friend and his current students, although this may be forthcoming. As to the "heat" that the old head is putting on us, I am not certain how much he can do to us. We know him, my colleague and I, but we have not really had that much to do with him thru the yrs. The old sensei has supposedly "put the word" out on us with some of the people outside our system but within goju, which I assume is the same as "blackballing" or "blacklisting." Presently, we dont have much to do with other goju people in other places, but the thought of him bad mouthing about me to people I dont even know his disturbing.

This thing is still "up in the air, and I dont know how the "dust will settle."

Thanks for your thoughts and replies.

[bushido_man96]

The old system head did retire, but he did not like the overall direction of the system in terms of the current leadership. So, I am assuming, he got back into it to "rally the cause" so to speak.

He was not informed of the changes initially, because my sensei did not want to "hurt his feelings", although my colleague and I felt that he should be told.

When we made the changes, it was with our current sensei's approval and with the understanding that the old head was retired and our sensei had the "authority" to make such changes. There had been little or no contact between the old head and the new head in regards to martial arts. We were all taken somewhat by surprise at the old head's return.

As to why my sensei is letting my friend and I take the heat, I can only conjecture. The old sensei is his sensei and personal friend. He has not yet been put in a position where he has to choose between his old friend and his current students, although this may be forthcoming. As to the "heat" that the old head is putting on us, I am not certain how much he can do to us. We know him, my colleague and I, but we have not really had that much to do with him thru the yrs. The old sensei has supposedly "put the word" out on us with some of the people outside our system but within goju, which I assume is the same as "blackballing" or "blacklisting." Presently, we dont have much to do with other goju people in other places, but the thought of him bad mouthing about me to people I dont even know his disturbing.

This thing is still "up in the air, and I dont know how the "dust will settle."

Thanks for your thoughts and replies.

Might be a good time to look for a new school, or some other alternative.

[atalaya]

this does sound like quite the pickle. If i may, however, other goju organizations may be more in favor of supporting you. The old head may not even have much to do with other goju organizations because a) he named the school after himself, b) created additional katas and if what you've said about having limited contact with other goju groups is true, c) he may not have had much contact either.

good luck, in any event.

[jaymac]

Sit down with all the involved individuals and hash this thing out. Find out where you stand with your instructor and the organization.