Judo v. BJJ

[Jiffy]

Although I love BJJ is a very effective art, I do not think it is effective on it's own in the street. Why? Despite popular opinion, MOST fights do not end up on the ground. Most fights are finished quickly with a few strikes. However, ALL fights that go any longer than that end up on the ground! I would say, if you could do some striking, plus BJJ, that would be the most ideal. Otherwise, Judo would be more affective as it works from both the ground and on the feet (well, a lot more evenly at least)

[IKnowCrazy]

Oh no, NAJVBJJ(VS)T (Not another Judo Vs. BJJ (Vs. Sambo) thread)!

If you do some google searches, there is a lot of very heated discussion on this subject. I believe there is also a contraversial list of well-known Judoka who beat well known GJJ/BJJ practictioners. Most of the time the BJJ guys have some excuse for every loss, such as the winner didn't use a Judo specific move...

That said, GJJ/BJJ has it's own reputation from UFC. It's obviously a great sytem.

From what I have observed, Judo guys seem to be better at staying up. They seem to have better balance and takedowns, and when it goes to the ground they usually take the top. BJJ guys on the other hand, almost seem to want to go to the ground, even if it means taking the bottom position. They seem to be very accomplished in this position; however I think in modern MMA it's a disadvantage because everyone has some ground skills now and it's not the most ideal place to be.

On the street, it's not great either. You can end up getting stabbed or kicked to death by the attackers buddy. Also, try doing an armbar on the street and you might end up getting your leg bit a la Bolo Vs. Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon.

There is also other options, like Sambo for example.

I would think that BJJ would be great in combination with a striking style, while if you could only afford one Judo might be better for the street. However, it depends on the Judo school. If it is very sport based then you can end up learning a lot of restrictive techniques. It also might be a good idea to see if they train Gi only. Some of the stuff with the Gi might work on winter jackets, but try grabbing soemone with a beater on and it will just rip off in your hands.

If you can find a school that does Combat Sambo, that might be even better as it is ment for combat situations and self-defense. There is also an "aiki" version called Samoz which is meant for more defensive situations.

Either way, anything is going to be better than nothing, and the quality of the instruction plus your comfort at the school (do you get along with the students? Does the instructor pay attention? Is he/she nice or do they make you uncomfortable? etc.) plus what you can accomplish could be more important than the style itself.

Good luck!

[ShotokanTre]

Thanks for all the info guys!

Have any of you actually utilized judo or BJJ in a fight (or known someone who has). And if yes, did you find the art useful and could you elaborate with details?

Also, are there other martial styles that you guys feel might be even more useful for self defense than judo or BJJ?

well, based on that, I'd have to say BJJ because I've seen that used in a fight but not judo. However, I'd be willing to bet they are similar. ju/jiu - do/jitsu .

[glockmeister]

BJJ is ground fighting, and aims to get the fight on the ground and finish it there. IMO on the street this is a bad tactic; your priority should be to disable the opponent while still on your feet. i have been in situations where if i had gone to the ground i could have been seriously hurt (i described one in the real self defence stories thread in the general MA forum).

You may want to check out the Gracie's book on BJJ for self defense. there are quite a few techniques designed to deal with an attacker from a standing position.

[bushido_man96]

E&K stated that a combination of the two would work well, for standing and working on the ground.

[rb]

I am primarily deciding between judo and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Here are my questions:

1. Do you think judo is an effective form of self-defense (even w/o gi)?

2. Which is better for the street, judo or BJJ? And why?

Your thoughts are most welcome and appreciated.

1. Yes judo is effective. It contains throwing techniques that utilize all parts of the body. It has submission techniques that choke or attack the joints. You also learn how to pin an opponent. You do not need a judogi to practice a majority of the techniques.

2. Judo. The standup skills in judo are superior to BJJ and will give you a higher chance of putting the opponent down. In my experience, clubs tend to be 70/30 standup/ground. You might find the odd one that is 60/40, 50/50. Even with 30% ground work, you'll have pins, armlocks and chokes. That is more than enough to deal with the average person.

[gzk]

As has been said, Judo is superior for standing grappling and throws - taking him down, or submitting him when you're both standing.

What if he catches you unprepared, you go to ground, and you start fighting with him in the mount? BJJ can get you out of that one. Not sure about Judo.

Having said that I wouldn't use only BJJ for self-defence if I had the choice (and I do, luckily ), I'd do some form of stand-up too.

If you must do only one form and cannot suppliment it with another, I'd say probably Judo, but either one will be somewhat helpful.

[ninjer]

BJJ is ground fighting, and aims to get the fight on the ground and finish it there. IMO on the street this is a bad tactic; your priority should be to disable the opponent while still on your feet. i have been in situations where if i had gone to the ground i could have been seriously hurt (i described one in the real self defence stories thread in the general MA forum).

Its only a bad tactic if you're not comfortable there Thats the reason so many grapplers prefer the ground, because so many other people dont- thats the strategy.

Seriously though, alot of people are missing out on what judo offers and what jiu jitsu offers.

First off, Judo is superior to BJJ with throws and not neccessarily takedowns. Most judoka are completely lost if they dont have something to grab a hold of their opponent to throw with (thats not to say that with a little no gi cross training they couldnt manage ala Karo Parysian). BJJ teaches simple and effective methods to take the fight to the ground, and this is where the two styles differ a bit:

1: Judo wants the perfect throw, and often times you see a judo player attempt a throw and miss it, falling to the ground and giving his back

2: BJJ doesnt care how pretty or ugly your takedown is, as long as it gets it to the ground- more applicable for a fight

Secondly, Judo is highly ingrained in its sportive roots. Even during the ne waza (groundfighting) part of class, you'll see people practice their stalling techniques on the ground- for example, if you give up your back in a real fight or in BJJ, thats the worst position to get caught in- you're taught this early on. A judoka is taught that hes safe as long as hes not pinned. They will often go belly down to avoid the pin and give their back to their opponent, which is hazardous.

That being said, judo started off as being something that was primarily geared towards practical application, and it still is, however many of the rules have been changed to make it more spectator friendly. BJJ doesnt have to deal with that stigma and while judo is very effective for self defense, BJJ is just a little further ahead.

[bushido_man96]

Its only a bad tactic if you're not comfortable there Thats the reason so many grapplers prefer the ground, because so many other people dont- thats the strategy.

Even if you are comfortable fighting on the ground, how long do you want to be there if your opponent has some friends showing up to help him out?

[ninjer]

Its only a bad tactic if you're not comfortable there Thats the reason so many grapplers prefer the ground, because so many other people dont- thats the strategy.

Even if you are comfortable fighting on the ground, how long do you want to be there if your opponent has some friends showing up to help him out?

I would average my fights out to about 10 seconds between the time it takes me to take my opponents down and choke them unconcious. Pretty quick and effective and take into account the people I've fought had no jiu jitsu experience (or else their instructor should be fired....).

So, to turn the question around, how long do you want to be duking it out with someone before his friends show up and sucker you from the side, grab you, or tackle you to the ground? Multiple opponents poses the same threat to someone whether they be on the feet or on the ground. When more than 1 person is fighting another, its not called a fight- its a beatdown.

I have had to fight multiple people before, and my jiu jitsu training proved to be more usefull than any type of striking training could have.