Bag Gloves?

[EarthElement]

Callouses can limit movement, but more importantly, are just plain ugly.

Fighting isn't very pretty either, lmao. I know a dude that has quite a few callouses on the knuckles and still manages to get all the ladies. Its not the callouses that make the man but the man that makes the callouses.

But thank you iceman for that knucke push-up idea, i completey forgot about those, although i think that i might need to take it to the next level with those, e.g. knuckle push-ups on barbed wire.

[Fairfax_Uechi]

[Like I said, I've been doing it a long time & I want to continue to do it longer: so I choose to protect my hands.

FYI, I agree with you to a point. I think protecting your hands is VERY IMPORTANT. And you're right to error on the side of caution. I guess we disagree to a point also on the way to condition them. Nothing wrong with that. As long as the individual knows the risks, and makes an educated decision with how to train, then I think they should be able to decide. What bothers me though is that many instructors don't know. They take what their Sensei says as gospel, or they just assume things and then "teach it". So with this in mind, it sounds that you're students are very lucky as they have someone who is thinking and erroring on the cautious side. In our dojo we use the same approach. The goal is for no one to get hurt, and we work extra hard to make sure that students develop control, and a sense of responsibility, then work up to real conditioning. Slow and steady wins the race in the long run.

[IcemanSK]

[Like I said, I've been doing it a long time & I want to continue to do it longer: so I choose to protect my hands.

FYI, I agree with you to a point. I think protecting your hands is VERY IMPORTANT. And you're right to error on the side of caution. I guess we disagree to a point also on the way to condition them. Nothing wrong with that. As long as the individual knows the risks, and makes an educated decision with how to train, then I think they should be able to decide. What bothers me though is that many instructors don't know. They take what their Sensei says as gospel, or they just assume things and then "teach it". So with this in mind, it sounds that you're students are very lucky as they have someone who is thinking and erroring on the cautious side. In our dojo we use the same approach. The goal is for no one to get hurt, and we work extra hard to make sure that students develop control, and a sense of responsibility, then work up to real conditioning. Slow and steady wins the race in the long run.

This is too true. A lot of times instructors teach the way they were taught....& they don't know WHY they do it that way. "Maiwaras make you tough!" or other such things said to define what a "true martial artist" does to train. MA is a very important part of my life & I plan to it til the day I die. Part of that is trying to steer clear of "overuse injuries" that cause arthiritis, etc. And the other reality is, in 24 years of training, I've never been in a fight "on the street" ....& probably never will. I don't train to settle bar fights. I train cuz I love to train. If the 20 year old wanna train by punching trees or slammin' their shins into metal bars to "deaden the nerves in their legs," great! I'll chat w/ em when they're 40 & see how they are, then.

[Scotty]

hand and foot conditioning only really suggests to me that the person in question wants to do damage and as such is turning their hands into sledgehammers. Which, also suggests to me that that person must be intending to do harm by their martial arts. Sorry if that causes any offence to anyone, I just find hand conditioning to be a bit vulgar and unnecessary

[Fairfax_Uechi]

hand and foot conditioning only really suggests to me that the person in question wants to do damage and as such is turning their hands into sledgehammers. Which, also suggests to me that that person must be intending to do harm by their martial arts. Sorry if that causes any offence to anyone, I just find hand conditioning to be a bit vulgar and unnecessary

Why do you say that?

In my case, I have no intention of every harming anyone but I condition my hands and feet. I also have a job where damage to my fingers and/or hands would be a major nightmare. The key is to be smart about how you condition, and do it in a way to prevent damage.

As for why I condition, well, why do you train in martial arts? In my case, I train for many reasons. Health, exercise, mental workouts, and of course to be able to defend myself it I ever had to. And if I ever had to hit someone, I want to make sure that I don't get hurt.

Anyway, I'd love to hear your logic. FYI, I'm mostly curious, and want to hear a differing opinion.

[Scotty]

I find training in martial arts is one thing. And it's a great thing, which I'm sure is the same for you... or you wouldn't be doing it lol. But hand conditioning sends out totally the wrong signals. It's going to increase the damage you can do with strike... but why would you want this? I can practise my form alone and don't need power, and the only time I would want to use my karate to hit anyone would be in competition. In which case I wouldn't be hitting hard anyways. In a real life self defence situation, if you ended up injuring someone who attacked you, it looks really bad if you have used hand and foot conditioning.

I apologise if I caused any offence, but conditioning can only lead to potential problems, and I really don't think it's necessary. After all, the idea of a martial art is to defend, and not to attack.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Scotty

[Jiffy]

I don't think conditioning would come into it in a court, but it is possible you may find yourself with an assult charge due to excessive force. All speculation though.

[Fairfax_Uechi]

I find training in martial arts is one thing. And it's a great thing, which I'm sure is the same for you... or you wouldn't be doing it lol. But hand conditioning sends out totally the wrong signals. It's going to increase the damage you can do with strike... but why would you want this? I can practise my form alone and don't need power, and the only time I would want to use my karate to hit anyone would be in competition. In which case I wouldn't be hitting hard anyways. In a real life self defence situation, if you ended up injuring someone who attacked you, it looks really bad if you have used hand and foot conditioning.

I apologise if I caused any offence, but conditioning can only lead to potential problems, and I really don't think it's necessary. After all, the idea of a martial art is to defend, and not to attack.

Thanks for your well thought out commetns. I didn't think you said anything even close to potentially offensive, and I'll try to do the same. But I will totally disagree.

I condition, and condition hard. I train for many reasons, with one being self defense. And if someone attacks me, then I'm going to defend myself. If I have to hit someone I have no intention of getting hurt, if I can prevent it. Conditioning IMHO helps prevent me from getting hurt.

As for your comment, that it would be bad if I hurt someone with conditioned hands or feet, I would ask how would anyone know? If you look at my hands, you wouldn't have a clue that I condition them. Actually, you'd be suprised at them, since I work in an office, and take extra care to take care of them, you would think they were the hands of a doctor (which some folks have asked).

Anyway, one thing about martial arts is that there are many different styles, approaches and ways of doing things. As long as folks know the risks and rewards, then I think they can make smart decisions. What bothers me is when they get bad information or just blindly follow their Sensei.

[Fairfax_Uechi]

I don't think conditioning would come into it in a court, but it is possible you may find yourself with an assult charge due to excessive force. All speculation though.

I agree. That's why I try to avoid Massachusetts and similar states that REQUIRE you to flee instead of defend yourself. Better to be in Texas or Virginia where you can rightfully and legally defend yourself as long as you use common sense. (.i.e don't kill or use excessive force unless its life threatening, just enough to ensure your own safety.)

[bushido_man96]

I have two comments, and they are not meant to offend. They are just my opinion.

1. Working in the county jail, I have seen first hand that it does not matter who through the first punch, or who started the fight, or how....all parties involved are brought in for disorderly conduct. I suppose the rest is worked out in court.

2. Martial arts, practices, theories, philosophies, etc, where all originally developed for war. That being said, the idea of martial arts being meant to defend and not attack, or to wait for the first strike, in my opinion, is merely an idea that evolved over the last couple of hundred years as the arts became commericial. I don't think very many samurai warriors or medieval knights subscribed to the 'never strike first' maxim. On the battlefield, this maxim would likely be the end of a warrior.