yoko keage geri

[bushido_man96]

The video made it look like a very 'slappy' technique. I don't know that I could use it in sparring, but it looks like it could be a distraction technique to work into my Combat Hapkido training. I will try to work with it and see what I get.

[Jiffy]

One thing I saw lacking from the description of doing this kick properly is pivoting on your base leg. When doing a side snap kick, you should pivot on the ball of your foot and turn your heel towards the direction of the kick as you kick. This will help you penetrate through your opponent and save on the knees. As many have already said, it isn't necessarily power, but the technique and speed of the kick and speed of the retraction of the kick that will make this an effective technique.

That's because for Keage, a lot of schools don't pivot the supporting leg. They only do it for Kekome (thrust). While it does help with protecting the knee and with power, it is not necessary for Keagi because Keagi is a snap, not thrust. Therefore, the hips are not thrusted through and therefore, do not put the excess pressure on the knee like a thrust does. Also, rotating the supporting leg inhibits the speed of the technique, which is it's primary objective. As for power, power is not needed in Keage, only Kekomi.

[Killer Miller]

The only kick in Shotokan that you are supposed to pivot your foot with is Mawashi geri. All other kicks, once you plant your foot for the kick, it doesn't move at all - including yoko geri keage. Pivoting your foot is when you lose your driving speed and force of the kick and also lose your solid connection to the ground. This pivoting of the foot also becomes a "1" "2" action and slows your technique timing from going straight from point A to point B and also the recovery timing as well.

Bottom line, do not pivot once you plant - except for mawashi geri...

- Killer -

[AngelaG]

The only kick in Shotokan that you are supposed to pivot your foot with is Mawashi geri. All other kicks, once you plant your foot for the kick, it doesn't move at all - including yoko geri keage. Pivoting your foot is when you lose your driving speed and force of the kick and also lose your solid connection to the ground. This pivoting of the foot also becomes a "1" "2" action and slows your technique timing from going straight from point A to point B and also the recovery timing as well.

Bottom line, do not pivot once you plant - except for mawashi geri...

- Killer -

If you do not pivot your foot in kekomi you will not be able to stick your hips in effectively and the kick will have no power. If you pivot on the ball of the foot you drive power INTO the kick. Pivoting your foot in kekomi is a necessity if you want a powerful kick and you do not want to tear all the ligaments around your knee.

[Killer Miller]

There have always been different theroies on that concept Angela. Most pivot the foot in order to get height from their kick. I don't know if you are JKA or not, but the JKA concept is that any kick that is not one motion (which pivoting becomes two motions), and causes your vertical axis to change, is ineffective for maximum speed, timing, stability, and recovery of the kick. When the axis changes, meaning causing you to lean in the slightest and the kick becoming over waist high, your balance becomes off-centered from your foot. It becomes a simple task at this point to drive through the oponent, with a little eye blockage in the process, and the oponent goes down without effort... Also, to recover from that kick, you have to lean your axis back straight prior to carrying out another action - which again allows instability and vulnerability in your attack. The JKA method is that "every" action is not only to be executed with maximum speed and power, but with maximum stability and also the ability to recover or change direction of technique execution at all times from any position immediately.

So as the general rule, you never kick over waist height with kekomi. The exception to the rule is if you have become tone and limber enough to effectively exceed the waist height rule. The specific rule is that you never change your vertical axis and do not pivot your supporting foot in the process.

When sparring with world class karate-ka, as in referring to many of the JKA international team members, everything happens so quick and so powerful that any secondary movements lets you end up with incomplete, ineffective, instable techniques and typically the result is you being hurt or on the floor in the process.

Lastly, what I'm going to refer to as non-international level of technique, these concepts are not considered because the typical level of sparring partners are not at the proficiency level to where these concepts are critical in nature. However, if you compare international level of competition with the everyday level of fighting or self defense, body movement, timing, speed, and stability are very similar if not the same - meaning that there is no extra time for "secondary body actions."

- Killer -

The only kick in Shotokan that you are supposed to pivot your foot with is Mawashi geri. All other kicks, once you plant your foot for the kick, it doesn't move at all - including yoko geri keage. Pivoting your foot is when you lose your driving speed and force of the kick and also lose your solid connection to the ground. This pivoting of the foot also becomes a "1" "2" action and slows your technique timing from going straight from point A to point B and also the recovery timing as well.

Bottom line, do not pivot once you plant - except for mawashi geri...

- Killer -

If you do not pivot your foot in kekomi you will not be able to stick your hips in effectively and the kick will have no power. If you pivot on the ball of the foot you drive power INTO the kick. Pivoting your foot in kekomi is a necessity if you want a powerful kick and you do not want to tear all the ligaments around your knee.

[juey palancu]

Excellent postings by Miller. You have a great understanding of Traditional Shotokan principles, thanks for taking the time to write!

Somebody before in this thread said yoko geri keage (which by the way I understand literally means side 'raising' kick, not side 'snap' kick) is not an effective technique. They are very wrong. I have been lifted off my feet by a well-placed yoko geri keage to my side. If I hadnt felt it coming (at the last millisecond) and slightly turned to take the impact on the lateral back muscles, it would've probably cracked a rib or two. It nevertheless knocked the air out of me and left me defenseless. Needless to say, the match was over after the kick. I'm a strong, heavy guy (200 pounds) and the person (a woman) who executed the kick was only about 140 pounds. If that is not a sign of effectiveness, I dont know what is.

It does take a while to develop real power in this technique, so frustration on the part of the martial artists is probably what happens to a lot of people who dismiss this techique too prematurely. You need to develop the 'heavy foot' that comes with being relaxed , using your hips, and having good timing.

Yoko geri keage is definitely not a 'slappy' or 'distraction' technique if done properly. It can end a fight with a much bigger, experienced person, as my experience attests. I have always seen it as a much more dangerous kick than kekomi, only because it is a faster, less predictable kick that you can place on an unsuspecting opponent very quickly and accurately. It's the ones they dont see coming that hurt them....

ossu,

Gero

-----

Nidan, Traditional Shotokan

[jaymac]

The only kick in Shotokan that you are supposed to pivot your foot with is Mawashi geri. All other kicks, once you plant your foot for the kick, it doesn't move at all - including yoko geri keage. Pivoting your foot is when you lose your driving speed and force of the kick and also lose your solid connection to the ground. This pivoting of the foot also becomes a "1" "2" action and slows your technique timing from going straight from point A to point B and also the recovery timing as well.

Bottom line, do not pivot once you plant - except for mawashi geri...

- Killer -

We are not JKA and have been taught to pivot the ball of the foot with the yoko geri keage. Still an effective and very fast kick that gives an extra 1 -2" penetration on your opponent. Ever see someone knock over a bag with a side snap kick? I am sure you have, but it takes time and skill to do this. So I think our side snap kick (although not done JKA style) is quite powerful.

[bushido_man96]

When I do most kicks, I pivot my base foot. I try to do the pivot as I am kicking, so it is still all one motion, and not a 1, 2 motion, slowing the kick down.

[Shui Tora]

When doing a Yoko Keage Geri your foot must be at an angle (90) to the attack(er) and you must be using the very top edge of your foot. Also, you need to relax your leg, and stiff leg will not do a lot of power.

This side snap kick is designed to be sharp but quick, not slow....

[Jiffy]

If you do not rotate the supporting leg and you thrust your hips forward, you will almost certainly damage a ligament.

Explanation.

If your knee is pointing to the side and you thrust your hips forward, you are putting sideways pressure on the knee, which is not safe. If the knee is facing directly forward, you put excess rotational pressure on the knee which is also very dangerous.

There are two ways to stop this problem. My way is that you still use the hips, but rotate the foot. Millers way is that you do not thrust the hip. Either way will prevent damage, just make sure you don't thrust the hip AND keep the foot still.