Excuseologists

[Brandon Fisher]

Thats right 2 hours a week will still get you put in the hospital most times just maybe not in the cemetery. People constantly tell me you have to hit people many times to drop them my experience has been for the most part hit them hard adn hit them correctly the first time and they drop.

[jaymac]

Just-----> well put!

[AnonymousOne]

By comparison, the average amatuer boxer will spend one hour doing road work in the morning often at 6am and 2 hours every evening in a varirty of training with a customised training schedule for that individual. They do this 6 days per week.

Thats 18 hours per week.

Over a 3 year period it takes most to get to Shodan level, the amatuer boxer would have completed 1872 hours of training compared to the Karate-ka doing 624 hours

Thats a huge difference.

[parkerlineage]

Hm...

Assuming I've been to 90% of my classes, which is more or less accurate...I put in...about 1200 training hours, and 936 hours of teaching by the time I got my black belt.

Of course, I took longer, 'cause I started as a kid.

[Sohan]

By comparison, the average amatuer boxer will spend one hour doing road work in the morning often at 6am and 2 hours every evening in a varirty of training with a customised training schedule for that individual. They do this 6 days per week.

Thats 18 hours per week.

Over a 3 year period it takes most to get to Shodan level, the amatuer boxer would have completed 1872 hours of training compared to the Karate-ka doing 624 hours

Thats a huge difference.

First of all, most amateur boxers are kids who often live at home and just go to school. Most karateka who achieve black belt are adults whose lives do not revolve around the dojo, so it takes longer to achieve the same level of fighting proficiency. How many adults do you know who can successfully juggle working 50 hours a week, spending time with family and maintaining their home and other interests, and training martial arts 18+hours a week?

Anyway, to correct some faulty math, a boxer training 18 hours a week would actually amass 2808 hours of training in three years. And I noticed that in your karate figure that by granting the Shodans only 4 hours a week of training you are obviously not counting time spent training outside the gym, ie home training, cardio, weights, stretching, etc. I am sure that most who have the dedication needed to reach blackbelt often train on their own at least a few hours a week.

In my school it takes a minimum 5-6 years to reach Shodan, and that is at 3 two-hour classes per week, not to mention outside training time which for most is a minimum 3 additional hours of cardiovascular and strength training. My math comes to a minimum of 2340-2808 hours of training to reach Shodan, in our system at least. Seems about the same as your boxer, I believe, though I grant that the boxer is fitter in a shorter period of time.

However, IMO if you match up a well-conditioned black belt against a well-conditioned amateur boxer, I would bet my bucks that the black belt would likely win.

More tools at his disposal--I should know, I've done both.

With respect,

Sohan

[bushido_man96]

By comparison, the average amatuer boxer will spend one hour doing road work in the morning often at 6am and 2 hours every evening in a varirty of training with a customised training schedule for that individual. They do this 6 days per week.

Thats 18 hours per week.

Over a 3 year period it takes most to get to Shodan level, the amatuer boxer would have completed 1872 hours of training compared to the Karate-ka doing 624 hours

Thats a huge difference.

First of all, most amateur boxers are kids who often live at home and just go to school. Most karateka who achieve black belt are adults whose lives do not revolve around the dojo, so it takes longer to achieve the same level of fighting proficiency. How many adults do you know who can successfully juggle working 50 hours a week, spending time with family and maintaining their home and other interests, and training martial arts 18+hours a week?

Anyway, to correct some faulty math, a boxer training 18 hours a week would actually amass 2808 hours of training in three years. And I noticed that in your karate figure that by granting the Shodans only 4 hours a week of training you are obviously not counting time spent training outside the gym, ie home training, cardio, weights, stretching, etc. I am sure that most who have the dedication needed to reach blackbelt often train on their own at least a few hours a week.

In my school it takes a minimum 5-6 years to reach Shodan, and that is at 3 two-hour classes per week, not to mention outside training time which for most is a minimum 3 additional hours of cardiovascular and strength training. My math comes to a minimum of 2340-2808 hours of training to reach Shodan, in our system at least. Seems about the same as your boxer, I believe, though I grant that the boxer is fitter in a shorter period of time.

However, IMO if you match up a well-conditioned black belt against a well-conditioned amateur boxer, I would bet my bucks that the black belt would likely win.

More tools at his disposal--I should know, I've done both.

With respect,

Sohan

I agree with you here, Sohan. I don't have the time to dedicate to be a professional fighter, which is what most amateur boxers work towards. I can get in 2 or 3 classes per week, 2 days I can get in a solo workout, and I lift 4 days a week, along with some cardio on those. I have a family as well, and I feel like I am taking from them if I spend all of my time training. And I enjoy my time with my family. Actually met my wife in TKD class!

[Dragn]

I totally agree with the original post. I've seen soo many lame black belt wannabes, its depressing. I was once one of them myself. I was ranked as a TKD 2nd degree when I came to Japan but my fighting ability was pathetic. The standards here are so much higher.

No instructor wants to give a black belt to someone who cant fight here cause it will give the dojo a bad rep and nobody would want to train there. Back home it seems the opposite. Many want the belt without having to really earn it.

I'll be testing for my Daidojuku shodan in December. I'll have to face 10 opponents in full contact MMA rules. Each new opponent fresh. Each one trying to KO me. It aint no joke! I know some pretty tough guys who have failed.

But those who pass know that they can fight. Know they've earned the rank and that they have acheived something beyond the reach of the average person. They are warriors.

[bushido_man96]

There is a lot of talk about being able to fight as a direct result of martial arts training, and that is all well and good. However, not everyone who signs up for martial arts is looking to become a fighter. Some are looking for fitness, some for a new physical challenge.

Fighting ability shouldn't have to be the only measure of becoming a black belt. I agree that a certain level of self-defense should be attained. A person should be trained well enough that they can get out of a situation of need be. This doesn't mean that they have to dance with someone for 12 rounds, just do enough to get away and get safe.

I am not trying to offend anyone, but I am trying to point out that in this new day and age, there can be more motives for doing MA than just fighting, and that if someone is still willing to put in the time and effort to the practice of their style, and doesn't want to be the greatest fighter in the world, then they are earning their rank just as well as anyone.

[AnonymousOne]

There is a lot of talk about being able to fight as a direct result of martial arts training, and that is all well and good. However, not everyone who signs up for martial arts is looking to become a fighter. Some are looking for fitness, some for a new physical challenge.

Fighting ability shouldn't have to be the only measure of becoming a black belt. I agree that a certain level of self-defense should be attained. A person should be trained well enough that they can get out of a situation of need be. This doesn't mean that they have to dance with someone for 12 rounds, just do enough to get away and get safe.

I am not trying to offend anyone, but I am trying to point out that in this new day and age, there can be more motives for doing MA than just fighting, and that if someone is still willing to put in the time and effort to the practice of their style, and doesn't want to be the greatest fighter in the world, then they are earning their rank just as well as anyone.

If people need exercise they could just go for a walk or run, join a gym or go hiking.

I cant understand anyone taking up martial arts and not being interested in fighting. Thats the whole point of it all.

Its a warriors art not a knitting club

[bushido_man96]

The martial arts have become available to the public in many ways. Sport competition is one of these ways, and the level of competition ranges from regional tournaments to Olympic competition. Often, both forms and fighting competition are available, except at the highest levels, where it is only fighting.

My mom studied TKD for a time. She never had any intentions of fighting anyone. Sure, she could defend herself if need be, but never intended on 'dancing a few rounds' with a young whipper-snapper like me.

I feel that one of the appealing factors of the martial arts is the opportunity it provides for a person to better themselves physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

Now, don't misunderstand what I am saying. Just because someone doesn't want to be a fighter does not mean that I will let them get by with bad technique and a lack of understanding to defend themselves. I am not about 'watering down' the martial arts. Far from it. I am constantly reviewing what I see in my current school, and thinking of what I would do differently if I were the chief instructor: what material I would teach, what the focus of the classes would be, and etc. The integrity of the arts, no matter which one, is very important to me.

I think that everyone who wants to try out the martial arts, should be allowed to have that opportunity, and I will provide that opportunity if I am given the chance. If they don't want to be fighters, then that is ok. What I teach, and what a student takes from the experience, may very well be two different things. And that is ok with me. If we were all the same, it would be a very boring world, wouldn't it?