Shootboxing

[Kazuma]

How good of a style is shootboxing in a self defense situation?

[Kazuma]

Has anyone heard of Shootboxing?

[legkicker]

It's good, it's basically muay thai/judo/knockdown karate combined. Think of a thaiboxer that is good at judo throws. If you ever saw Takehiro Murahama fight in his prime you'll know what I'm talking about.

Andy Sauwer in K-1 max is a shootboxer but he's not fighting under shootboxing rules, so you don't get to see him throw people around.

[TriangleMan]

Legkicker summed it up, but I'll add just a little bit more.

Back when Kano was trying to spread the word about Judo by sending represenatives around the world, he inevitably ran into the American Catch Wrestlers who made quick work of the Judokas for a few reasons:

They fought without a gi

Emphasized wrestling takedowns and trips more than the Judoesque hip throws and trips

Emphasized a lot more footlocks, which while may not be as effective in a MMA bout are thoroughly effective in a grappling match where strikes arent allowed.

Simply put, I believe it was Karl Gotch that beat the Judoka represenatives and claimed the title of world judo champ. After the kodokan sent another judoka who lost, it kinda cemented catch wrestling in japan. People started to take off the gi, but the hip throws were still very popular, due to the great judokas in Japan, yet the facination with footlocks and lower body submissions prevailed, so you end up with a guy that has good throws/takedowns and good footlocks. To add a little to that, you're allowed to strike on the feet (not to the face) but not on the ground. It was a good honost attempt at mixing various martial arts together and was showcased in tournaments such as Pancrase. Its a very legit very effective style for fighting or self defese

[jeff5]

Never heard of that, do you mean Shootfighting or Shootwrestling?

[bushido_man96]

Wow, haven't heard about that in a while. I do think it is an effective style, and it covers most of the fighting ranges, which is always great.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me exactly what catch wrestling is. I get the feeling it is different than high school/college wrestling, but let me know if I am wrong.

[TriangleMan]

Wow, haven't heard about that in a while. I do think it is an effective style, and it covers most of the fighting ranges, which is always great.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me exactly what catch wrestling is. I get the feeling it is different than high school/college wrestling, but let me know if I am wrong.

Catch is different from High school (folkstyle). In all forms of wrestling but catch, submissions are illegal.

Catch Wrestling was very popular in the mid 20th century. Catch Wrestlers were often featured in traveling carnivals. At first, they would just do their traditional wrestling with pins with advertisements "Pin our Wrestler" but with desrepancies over what was a legit pin and whether it was held for long enough or not, it quickly changed to "make our wrestler give up" which would account for the submissions.

In this sense, catch wrestling is very much like any no gi tournament you'll see in the US these days, but there is much more to it than that. The strategy and mindset of catch is much different than the more popular BJJ styles you see, although BJJ has by now incorporated so much from other grappling styles that it is also not pure by itself now.

Major differences between BJJ and Catch:

-BJJ uses the gi, Catch does (did) not

-Catch had a different strategy than BJJ

---For example, catch prefers the idea of being able to attack from any position- this includes being inside your opponents legs (guard/body scissors) or even if your opponent is on your back. As a result of this "aggressive attack" philosophy, footlocks were very popular (since footlocks do not require positional dominance in order for you to attempt them). This means you'd be more likely to see a catch wrestler go for footlocks galore as soon as you open your guard- a BJJ fighter will most likely attempt to pass your guard and get to a dominant position.

---Catch does not advocate going for submissions that would result in a loss of position. Your standard armbar from the mount is an example of such a submission. If you miss the armbar, you lose the mount, which is something catch preferred not to do. As a result, they're more likely to be more conservative in their submission approach (such as attempting a keylock/kimura rather than a straight armbar).

If you watch closely, you'll see exactly what I mean by seeing your opponents different strategies. Catch wrestlers often arent going to be very good at attaining dominant positions in comparison to their jiu jitsu peers, simply because it was just never emphasized as much, but you're going to see them go for submissions much more often. BJJ fighters are often much more effective with chokeholds while catch wrestlers are more likely to attack with joint locks.

Examples of catch wrestlers would be Frank and Ken Shamrock and Josh Barnett

Examples of BJJ fighters would be Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Frank Mir, BJ Penn, and Royce Gracie

[bushido_man96]

Very good info, TriangleMan. Thank you.

I had thought that Ken Shamrock practiced "Pancrase." Or is this the same as catch? A newer renditition of pankration?

[TriangleMan]

Very good info, TriangleMan. Thank you.

I had thought that Ken Shamrock practiced "Pancrase." Or is this the same as catch? A newer renditition of pankration?

Pancrase is a tournament that showcased popular catch wrestlers in Japan. Pancrase is a ruleset (strikes on the feet, no closed fist attacks to the head, 10 second knockdowns, no punching on the ground) whereas catch wrestling is a style.

[bushido_man96]

Very good info, TriangleMan. Thank you.

I had thought that Ken Shamrock practiced "Pancrase." Or is this the same as catch? A newer renditition of pankration?

Pancrase is a tournament that showcased popular catch wrestlers in Japan. Pancrase is a ruleset (strikes on the feet, no closed fist attacks to the head, 10 second knockdowns, no punching on the ground) whereas catch wrestling is a style.

I see. Thanks for the clarifications!