Psychology of pressure points?

[parkerlineage]

Never thought of this before...but psychology has stimulated me to look at the MA in a new light, and I'm writing a paper called Pavlov's Wolves: Behaviorism and the Martial Arts...so...

Is there by any chance some psychological aspect to pressure points? I'm confident and almost resolute that there is in terms of no-touch-knockout stuff, but could psychology as well as physiology have anything to do with the lack of effectivness of some pressure points on some people.

For example:

I'm not master at Eagle Claw (at least not yet, and not for a loooooooong while ), but I can bend some people at my Kenpo dojo to my every whim and have them whimpering and tapping, but others just look at me and go, "Yeah? When does it start?" Could this possibly have to do with these people's personalities (defiant and strong-willed) and the fact that they have told themselves that they will feel nothing?

[bushido_man96]

Those are good questions, parkerlineage. I wonder if it is mental, or have to do with physical toughness, or something else.

[AngelaG]

I don't think so, if used properly. I think there is when used with some of the more questionable hocus pocus type PP instructors.

The best way to check for suggestability is to not tell the receiver what should happen, and see if it does anyway.

[legkicker]

I think it's psychological to some degree meaning some people have more experience with physical pain which makes them have moreof a tolerance to it. Where I train at they like to practice "pressure points" and such and the first few weeks the schmucks tried to use them while doing bjj grappling on me. All this did was irritate me and make me go harder on them.

[cathal]

In my own psych training from university physiology is a major factor of course. The method that a nerve transmits information as well as carrying memory is relatively universal from person to person. But one thing modern psychologists haven't been able to answer is why state of mind can prevent someone from experiencing something much differently than another.

I think the discovery channel had something on about olympic weightlifters...and their state of mind when doing the lifting. If you had the weight in your mind you weren't going to lift it but if you were thinking about the action and the joy of lifting, you succeeded. So that said I tend to agree with that show in that the state of mind and what you tell yourself are major factors in allowing something to happen.

Maybe there is something mystical (for lack of a better word) bout it, but right now I don't think we have any scientific equipment which can measure that.

[parkerlineage]

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

I thought of a converse, too - if I tell myself that I will do the pressure point effectively, will it be better than if I have question in my mind?

[alsey]

psychology is extremely important in any type of fight or fighting technique. however, i'd say that given that you have applied the pressure point technique correctly, it is mainly physical factors that determine the opponent's response.

i don't think pressure points techniques involve the mind of the opponent. if i grab certain points on your arm, your arm bends. just like if i hit you hard in the head, your head will be knocked back. there's no psychology involved, its just physics and human anatomy. however, psychological things will affect my ability to apply the technique, and the opponents recovery from the technique. that's my opinion anyway.

also, i kind of lump pressure point techniques into two categories. there are those that weaken a joint momentarily or induce some reflex action. i'm reasonably proficient with these sort of techniques and they can be used to set up locks and stuff. this is mainly what i'm talking about above.

then there are the wierd knock outs and death touches and stuff. i don't understand how these techniques work/are supposed to work, and they don't seem to be very reliable. responses from different people vary massively to these sort of techniques. i would imagine psychology is heavily involved in this sort of thing.

[bushido_man96]

I feel that the mentality/toughness of the individual that you face will have some bearing on the results of attacking a pressure point. Some people have higher pain tolerance levels than others, and this will have an effect of the results.

[Belasko]

I think if you tell a person before what happens what they should experience then there can be some psychological influence. However, I feel this influence is relatively minimal. My own experiences w/ pp (though limited) is that if applied properly and in the correct location it will work rather well. The question I would consider is based on the anatomy (which I do have extensive experience with). Do everyones pp's always end up in the exact same spot? I know in nursing school they would say "you have a vein, nerve, artery, etc. right here..." what I have found since then is that it may be off slightly, like a mm or two. Or in rare cases be completely out of place. This can make a major difference in how you do something. Same thing w/ pp techniques. If not applied precisely it won't work.

[AngelaG]

Perhaps the psychological value is more on the person doing the technique, rather than the person receiving the technique. Does positive mental attitude help? If I believe a technique will hurt more, will I automatically apply extra pain levels? Interesting thought actually.

It kind of relates to something I am looking into: Verbal Prompts, and whether they work... And do they work from the point of view of the attacker and/or the defender.