Seisan

[Rick_72]

We practice Seisan in my dojo.....its one of the two empty hand test requirements for Shodan (well those along with everything else you've ever learned in the school haha).

[Shui Tora]

Seisan and Hangetsu Kata are both the same, although different versions of Seisan use techniques that differ considerably to those we have in Hangetsu. Bear in mind that Hangetsu was created to tie in with a system that rarely uses Sanchin dachi...

And so that is where you get the variability of Seian/Hangetsu... (Not a bad kata, but it is the breathing that I can't get right... Just me though! )

[patusai]

I still found all this interesting. There are many different versions of the kata and even some different names for the same kata. I know that Hangetsu is one. From what I have seen, is not Sieshan also Seisan?

As for others showing vids if this or any other kata that would be great! I really like seeing others do kata. Sometimes it makes me feel better about my own ability in a particular kata and, more often, it makes me feel inferior...but that's OK too. It motivates me.

[aubreyirons]

i learned this kata for my purple belt (7 kyu) in AKR(also known as Okinawan Te) it has 48 movements.this kata also used to be a blackbelt kata, and yes there are 6 cat stances in this kata the way we teach it.

[armanox]

I posted the same thread in a few different places, and so I'll share the videos that pop up since this one has been the most active. Thanks to moosey on MAP:

http://www.aokdojo.com/Video%20Clips/Hangetsu%20Video%20Clip.mpeg

Any other input would be appreciated video wise.

[armanox]

Yes, and to comment on what was mentioned above, Seisan and Hangetsu were at one point the same kata, and for my purposes are still the same. The difference is that Funikoshi changed it from being "13" to being "Cresent Moon." But, the Seisan that Funikoshi used clearly is not the Seisan that I know. I may ask sensei to write to Okinawa for more information as to the origin of our Seisan, so that I can distinguish it from other variations.

[Isshinryu_heart]

When do you guys learn Seisan? We actually learn it at Rokokyu level, much earlier than some systems. I understand that it had only been taught at black belt until recently in Shorin-ryu, but I'm not sure if that is just with the Shobayashi branch.

With respect,

Sohan

In Isshinryu Seisan kata is the first kata taught. We have shortened versions created by my sensei's teacher called Seich and Seini, which we teach to brand new students to prepare them for learning their first kata, and seisan is the first full kata that a student learns in Isshinryu.

I have always found it interesting that seisan is taught at the black belt level in some styles.

[Shui Tora]

Seisan (or Hangetsu for Shotokan) is taught at 3rd Kyu/2nd Kyu in the syllabus.

We aminly use it for developing out breathing, and getting used to rooting ourselves / stances. Saisan and Hangetsu are the same in most way, but different in others. I like Seisan, its a good kata, and I know that (if it is Gojo Ryu or Wado Ryu) that use it as their first kata, like Isshinryu.

[Uchichiesu]

Not quite sure what your referring to by "standards". Do elaborte. Please.

To be brutally honest with you I thought the standard of technique wasnt the best.

Sorry if this offends

Hey this is my first post and I agree. The Seisan we do is similar, but I have never seen a Kobayashi dojo train Seisan ( I do understand that this is a Shobayashi variant). This version looked really slow and was missing many principles and movements. Your BBs need to learn balance and walking all over again IMO. Where is the use of gamaku/koshi?

Sorry if this sounds harsh. Hate to start off on this note but I have some issues with weak karate-ka (especially those claiming Shuri-te lineage), and there are soooo many out there. To each his/her own, but being a yudansha if you're weak I have to call you on it.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Uchichiesu

[Uchichiesu]

Double-post. My bad.