chinese martial art in ufc

[elbows_and_knees]

just wondering, am I the only one here that's kinda sick of all these UFC and MMA hype???

I'm not sick of it at all. venues like UFC and things like san shou are the best things to happen to MA in a long time, because they provide a means of really testing yourself, as opposed to entering point tourneys or just assuming that your skill is sufficient.

[elbows_and_knees]

Not sick of UFC or MMA just the atitude that seems to follow it. Within the scope of what they do there is a high level skill & conditioning. As a martial artist how can you not respect that.

My biggest pet peev is how intolerant they are of other martial arts outside the realm of MMA competiton. If you are practicing martial arts for any reason other than entering MMA competions - you are wrong.

I have the exact opposite experience. TMA are close minded and tend to only want to hear about TMA, IME. Here are some of the many experiences I've had in real life (not on the net) with TMA:

- at my old cma school, there was a guy who was infatuated with cma, but was blind to all else. He once said "boxers have no real skill - they just stand there and slug eachother"

- I was once showing a student at the above school some grappling techniques, as he had a grappling tourney coming up, and the same dude from above comes up and says "in a real fight, you just kick em in the nuts or hit em in the throat"

- A guy once told me that he couldn't teach me shuai chiao because it ws highly advanced and secretive. He later told he he'd teach me for $80 an hour. He didn't know I had already beeen training it FOR FREE under some guys who trained directly under one of chang tung sheng's students.

- when we relocated to the school we are in now, we went to a nearby pizza joint for lunch. The cashier said "are you guys from the new MA school?" we told him yes and invited him to come train with us sometime. He said "Nah, I don't need it. I train a traditional style and will not ever get taken to the ground."

I've had several similar experiences, but this is enough to illustrate my point.

[HG]

These days, muay thai just has itself. Now, in the old days, there were several muay - muay chaiya, muay lon lon, muay lopburi, etc. These were either regional styles or "eras" of muay. for example, muay kaad cheurk is the era in which they began wrapping the hands with hemp. You could sometimes tell who taught a person by the ram muay that they performed.

What is ram mauy?

black tiger steals the heart is what it is in your system. What about others that may use that term? Shuai chiao is a perfect example. you can go to three lineages of SC and each will give you a different name for the exact same technique. With such ambiguity, it can be hard to keep things in order.

If you are learing 4 or 5 different CMA's you will only be skimming the surface of each one. I think the problems would arise from a matter of quality vs. quantity. The poetic naming would be just one of many confusing dilemmas.

[elbows_and_knees]

These days, muay thai just has itself. Now, in the old days, there were several muay - muay chaiya, muay lon lon, muay lopburi, etc. These were either regional styles or "eras" of muay. for example, muay kaad cheurk is the era in which they began wrapping the hands with hemp. You could sometimes tell who taught a person by the ram muay that they performed.

What is ram mauy?

ever see the dance that is done before a thai match? that's the ram muay. They were once very specialized - they would dictate things about a style's history, or a teacher's background.

black tiger steals the heart is what it is in your system. What about others that may use that term? Shuai chiao is a perfect example. you can go to three lineages of SC and each will give you a different name for the exact same technique. With such ambiguity, it can be hard to keep things in order.

If you are learing 4 or 5 different CMA's you will only be skimming the surface of each one. I think the problems would arise from a matter of quality vs. quantity. The poetic naming would be just one of many confusing dilemmas.

I'm not talking about training many different styles. I'm talking about styles having different techniques with the same name, or the same technique, but a different name. If someone lived in atlanta and trained shuai chiao with david lin, then moved to ohio and trained with chiccoine, you would learn the same stuff you learned in atlanta, but the names for the techniques would be different.

[kzshin]

Regarding same techiques with different name;

you know, I found alot of times, the name is different only because people try to spell them in engish according the to the dialog tone, thou leads to different "names"

For example, Wing Chun, and Youn Tsun. They sounds different, and totally spell like different "name" in English. But if you understand Chinese Character, they are actually the same in Chinese writing.

I know alot of non-chinese speaks has trouble with this.

Also, I am not sick of UFC itself, it's entertaint to watch, but I am sick of the hype that it comes with.

I think there are alot of misconceptions regarding traitional Art.

[mantis.style]

Regarding same techiques with different name;

you know, I found alot of times, the name is different only because people try to spell them in engish according the to the dialog tone, thou leads to different "names"

For example, Wing Chun, and Youn Tsun. They sounds different, and totally spell like different "name" in English. But if you understand Chinese Character, they are actually the same in Chinese writing.

Hello.

To address what you have said in the above quote, I have to say, yes and no. Yes because I know a lot of the differences only occur when you try to talk things that are originally described in chinese terms based on Chinese principles in English for which there is often no direct translations. On the other hand I say "no" because the things that are being talking about here, names such as "black tiger steals heart" being in English, it doesn't matter how it sounds in the Chinese because the individual characters will always be the ones for "black" "tiger" "steals" and "heart".

What he is talking about is when the same names are used for different things. Some schools that teach let us take Crane as an example, it being something I am familiar with, as purely a set of principles based on the characteristics of a crane. Then there are some schools that are based on not only principles based on but movements that look like a crane's movement as well. In the case of mantis styles, the variation between the different schools is even greater with Northern Mantis styles bearing little resemblance to Southern Mantis styles in principles, training and especially in appearance and application and yet there are similar poetic names in both.

Also, your example of the name for wing chun being different in English is also slight wrong. Yes it is true that different people have spelt the name differently in English but then again, there are different ways of spelling it in Chinese as well, depending on what particular branch/school you are from. Also, the two versions you gave are also peculiar in that one is a spelling of the Cantonese and one is the spelling of the Mandarin, itself an indication of a difference in school anyway.

I also agree that there is a lot of misconception about the Chinese Arts. However what concerns me is that too many people think that Traditional Chinese Arts do not contain hard training such as weights, resistance or heavy contact sparring or fighting.

[elbows_and_knees]

I also agree that there is a lot of misconception about the Chinese Arts. However what concerns me is that too many people think that Traditional Chinese Arts do not contain hard training such as weights, resistance or heavy contact sparring or fighting.

CMA having weight training is no secret. rings, vases and stone locks have been in the public eye for years. Other methods, like rock pole training aren't so well known. However, the concept of schools not sparring isn't necessarily a misconception. There really are alot of schools - REAL, traditional schools included - that do not spar. That goes for both chinese and japanese ma. This stems back to the old battle techniques and their lethal intent. The closest many schools would come to sparring were pre arranged drills, like two man forms, seen in many CMA. Funakoshi was against the addition of sparring to karate initially, claiming that it would water down the art - and to some extent, he was right.

[Menjo]

Not sick of UFC or MMA just the atitude that seems to follow it. Within the scope of what they do there is a high level skill & conditioning. As a martial artist how can you not respect that.

My biggest pet peev is how intolerant they are of other martial arts outside the realm of MMA competiton. If you are practicing martial arts for any reason other than entering MMA competions - you are wrong.

I have the exact opposite experience. TMA are close minded and tend to only want to hear about TMA, IME. Here are some of the many experiences I've had in real life (not on the net) with TMA:

- at my old cma school, there was a guy who was infatuated with cma, but was blind to all else. He once said "boxers have no real skill - they just stand there and slug eachother"

- I was once showing a student at the above school some grappling techniques, as he had a grappling tourney coming up, and the same dude from above comes up and says "in a real fight, you just kick em in the nuts or hit em in the throat"

- A guy once told me that he couldn't teach me shuai chiao because it ws highly advanced and secretive. He later told he he'd teach me for $80 an hour. He didn't know I had already beeen training it FOR FREE under some guys who trained directly under one of chang tung sheng's students.

- when we relocated to the school we are in now, we went to a nearby pizza joint for lunch. The cashier said "are you guys from the new MA school?" we told him yes and invited him to come train with us sometime. He said "Nah, I don't need it. I train a traditional style and will not ever get taken to the ground."

I've had several similar experiences, but this is enough to illustrate my point.

Well in my view, on any position, your going to find more fools than real experts, so I think listening to people who say ignorant things that you stated above, simply shouldn't be paid ANY attention too, their vote doesn't count.

People are being rewarded by social security from others by bashing other peoples arts...does this type of scenario sound familiar? Try thousands of years of the history of mankind and I'm sure someone could find something. Not only that, but it becomes contagous, as everyone wants that security, they feed off each other, and theres no stopping it.

But thats not my point, For MMA and TMA, while the higher level mixed martial arts often have the cocky attitude, they seem to show some respect to TMA in general. And this goes for the same with higher level TMA , although usually have much different traits. I'm not aying that the higher levels all have respect for one another, but in general they seem at least a little more open.

I meet people everyweek who insult what I train in, and yes I do care, but I wont let thier egos destroy the reps of respectable mixed martial artists or traditional artists too, afterall, martial arts are more of a individual activity in my opinion.

Now my biggest concern is this: Why do the public who join TMA think that because they train in one style, they can't get into the same physical activities, put aside the arguments of chi and body flow.

Any martial artist can go and get a heavy bag, or run, or do similar physical conditioning as the mixed martial artists.

In fact, to improve my karate, I've been recently going around and talking with willing instructors of all martial arts (including MMA) who gave me advice and training workouts that i use everyday...I also think MMA could learn a little more with some TMA help aswell...why not??

But I don't think that would ever happen, plus even stating this is a contradiction to what I said just at the start.

[elbows_and_knees]

But thats not my point, For MMA and TMA, while the higher level mixed martial arts often have the cocky attitude, they seem to show some respect to TMA in general. And this goes for the same with higher level TMA , although usually have much different traits. I'm not aying that the higher levels all have respect for one another, but in general they seem at least a little more open.

they are likely more open because they compete or have done so before. People who actually get out there and compete against others realize that any style can have something good to offer. What will make or break them isn't the style, but the training methods they use.

Now my biggest concern is this: Why do the public who join TMA think that because they train in one style, they can't get into the same physical activities, put aside the arguments of chi and body flow.

Any martial artist can go and get a heavy bag, or run, or do similar physical conditioning as the mixed martial artists.

1. you have those who want to train the way they think the ancients did based on what they see in movies and on tv

2. because their teacher does not use these things.

[Karateka_latino]

what Im sick about is close-minded people who thinks that they do is the best and the rest doesn't work. It doesn't matter if its a TMA or a MMA.

Train what makes you feel better and let other do whats best for them and live happy.

Is not bad to think that what you train is the best for you, but don't close yourself to other things around that are great too.

In the past i used to get caught in those pointless arguments until one day i stopped and started to do whatever made me happy but without discarding the other things. Learn everything you can, it doesn't matter if its TMA or MMA or whatever.