chinese martial art in ufc

[elbows_and_knees]

Yes, there are schools like that but not all of them hide behind the shroud of Chinese mysticism. Kung fu is so intertwined with Chinese culture, poetic names for techniques & secret skills will never go away, it's what makes Kung fu....Kung fu.

I agree and disagree with you there. No, not all schools hide behing the curtain, which is a good thing. However, they do all hide to some extent. This is where interpretation of forms comes in. Take the movement "shoot the bow" I've seen different interpretations of it from different styles, some more practical than others. But with such poetic names and numerous application possibilities, you don't really know what the creator intended anymore.

muay thai has descriptive names. For example, "crocodile lashes it's tail" is a spinning hook kick. but IME, it's usually taught as a spinning hook kick, not as the more poetic name.

You control the art not the other way around. Basic fight skills should be enough for most situations. If it's needed, lethal techniques are readily available provided proper training & corresponding intent.

EXACTLY!! that is why the "too deadly" argument can't hold water.

[masterintraining]

They are very legal- I just posted the link:

The following acts are regarded as "illegal actions." When a fighter commits any of these illegal actions, he will be given a warning from the referee (in the form of a yellow card). Warnings will be considered as negative points in the event that the match goes to a decision. Three warnings will result in a disqualification.

No head butting, eye gouging, hair pulling, biting or fish hooking.

No attacking the groin

No strikes (kicks, elbows, punching) to the back of the head (which includes the occipital region and the spine). The sides of the head and the area around the ears are not considered to be the back of the head.

No small joint manipulation (control of four or more fingers/toes is necessary).

No elbow strikes to the head and face.

No intentionally throwing your opponent out of the ring.

No running out of the ring.

No purposely holding the ropes. Fighters cannot purposely hang an arm or leg on the ropes. Hanging on the ropes will result in an immediate warning.

No kicks or knees to the head or the face of an opponent who falls face down.

No application of oil, ointment, spray, Vaseline, massaging cream, hair cream, or any other substances is permitted to any part of the fighter's body before and during the fights. The discovery of any of these substances will result in a disqualification.

You're simply investing too much into the practicality of throat strikes. While they may be very effective, they're certainly not as effective as a swift hook to the jaw.

... whats fish hooking.

[MizuRyu]

I agree and disagree with you there. No, not all schools hide behing the curtain, which is a good thing. However, they do all hide to some extent. This is where interpretation of forms comes in. Take the movement "shoot the bow" I've seen different interpretations of it from different styles, some more practical than others. But with such poetic names and numerous application possibilities, you don't really know what the creator intended anymore.

muay thai has descriptive names. For example, "crocodile lashes it's tail" is a spinning hook kick. but IME, it's usually taught as a spinning hook kick, not as the more poetic name.

Great point Elbows_And_Knees. The poeticism has harmed kung fu a great deal IMO. "Goat wags tail on showy mountain" doesn't tell me enough about what to do.

By the same token, if we spoke Chinese it COULD be a different story. From my understanding Mandarin relies on many stories, tales, and 'cultural sayings' in it's everyday speech. A good example would be: "gou zhang ren shi" meaning: "the dog acts fierce when in presence of his master", MEANING: "to take advantage of one's connections with powerful people". If you spoke mandarin, perhaps those poetic techniques would make more sense. Who knows...

I took 2 years of Mandarin in High School; not nearly enough to truly understand it however.

[bushido_man96]

They are very legal- I just posted the link:

The following acts are regarded as "illegal actions." When a fighter commits any of these illegal actions, he will be given a warning from the referee (in the form of a yellow card). Warnings will be considered as negative points in the event that the match goes to a decision. Three warnings will result in a disqualification.

No head butting, eye gouging, hair pulling, biting or fish hooking.

No attacking the groin

No strikes (kicks, elbows, punching) to the back of the head (which includes the occipital region and the spine). The sides of the head and the area around the ears are not considered to be the back of the head.

No small joint manipulation (control of four or more fingers/toes is necessary).

No elbow strikes to the head and face.

No intentionally throwing your opponent out of the ring.

No running out of the ring.

No purposely holding the ropes. Fighters cannot purposely hang an arm or leg on the ropes. Hanging on the ropes will result in an immediate warning.

No kicks or knees to the head or the face of an opponent who falls face down.

No application of oil, ointment, spray, Vaseline, massaging cream, hair cream, or any other substances is permitted to any part of the fighter's body before and during the fights. The discovery of any of these substances will result in a disqualification.

You're simply investing too much into the practicality of throat strikes. While they may be very effective, they're certainly not as effective as a swift hook to the jaw.

... whats fish hooking.

Fishhooking, in my experience, is taking your index finger, and hooking your opponents mouth with it at the corner, and then pulling it to the side. Very uncomfortable.

[HG]

I agree and disagree with you there. No, not all schools hide behing the curtain, which is a good thing. However, they do all hide to some extent. This is where interpretation of forms comes in. Take the movement "shoot the bow" I've seen different interpretations of it from different styles, some more practical than others. But with such poetic names and numerous application possibilities, you don't really know what the creator intended anymore.

I disagree with your disagreement I guess it depends what type of CMA school you come from. The names are specific to a corresponding movement, anything else just wouldn't make sense. For example 'Black tiger steals the heart' is a left handed tiger claw palm strike. It will always be that particular move in our lineage. Any good art will always strive to improve upon the lessons left by earlier generations but it doesn't mean you re-invent the system. Especially if it's not broke to begin with.

In CMA their are styles & lineages within styles. Does Muay Thai have a similar breakdown?

EXACTLY!! that is why the "too deadly" argument can't hold water.

I've always been highly skeptical of "too deadly" claims. If it were that easy to kill someone barehanded the news would be flooded with stories; a soccer mom who killed a 250lb mugger or an elementary school fight with both kids slowly dying from dim mak strikes.

[bushido_man96]

I agree and disagree with you there. No, not all schools hide behing the curtain, which is a good thing. However, they do all hide to some extent. This is where interpretation of forms comes in. Take the movement "shoot the bow" I've seen different interpretations of it from different styles, some more practical than others. But with such poetic names and numerous application possibilities, you don't really know what the creator intended anymore.

muay thai has descriptive names. For example, "crocodile lashes it's tail" is a spinning hook kick. but IME, it's usually taught as a spinning hook kick, not as the more poetic name.

Great point Elbows_And_Knees. The poeticism has harmed kung fu a great deal IMO. "Goat wags tail on showy mountain" doesn't tell me enough about what to do.

By the same token, if we spoke Chinese it COULD be a different story. From my understanding Mandarin relies on many stories, tales, and 'cultural sayings' in it's everyday speech. A good example would be: "gou zhang ren shi" meaning: "the dog acts fierce when in presence of his master", MEANING: "to take advantage of one's connections with powerful people". If you spoke mandarin, perhaps those poetic techniques would make more sense. Who knows...

I took 2 years of Mandarin in High School; not nearly enough to truly understand it however.

This "poeticism" goes back to the similar discussion that we had about using Japanese terminology in training. I don't feel that any of it is required to keep the 'traditional' aspects of the arts there. If anything, it is another area for cofusion to arise.

[elbows_and_knees]

I agree and disagree with you there. No, not all schools hide behing the curtain, which is a good thing. However, they do all hide to some extent. This is where interpretation of forms comes in. Take the movement "shoot the bow" I've seen different interpretations of it from different styles, some more practical than others. But with such poetic names and numerous application possibilities, you don't really know what the creator intended anymore.

I disagree with your disagreement I guess it depends what type of CMA school you come from. The names are specific to a corresponding movement, anything else just wouldn't make sense. For example 'Black tiger steals the heart' is a left handed tiger claw palm strike. It will always be that particular move in our lineage. Any good art will always strive to improve upon the lessons left by earlier generations but it doesn't mean you re-invent the system. Especially if it's not broke to begin with.

In CMA their are styles & lineages within styles. Does Muay Thai have a similar breakdown?

EXACTLY!! that is why the "too deadly" argument can't hold water.

I've always been highly skeptical of "too deadly" claims. If it were that easy to kill someone barehanded the news would be flooded with stories; a soccer mom who killed a 250lb mugger or an elementary school fight with both kids slowly dying from dim mak strikes.

These days, muay thai just has itself. Now, in the old days, there were several muay - muay chaiya, muay lon lon, muay lopburi, etc. These were either regional styles or "eras" of muay. for example, muay kaad cheurk is the era in which they began wrapping the hands with hemp. You could sometimes tell who taught a person by the ram muay that they performed.

black tiger steals the heart is what it is in your system. What about others that may use that term? Shuai chiao is a perfect example. you can go to three lineages of SC and each will give you a different name for the exact same technique. With such ambiguity, it can be hard to keep things in order.

[kzshin]

just wondering, am I the only one here that's kinda sick of all these UFC and MMA hype???

[mantis.style]

black tiger steals the heart is what it is in your system. What about others that may use that term? Shuai chiao is a perfect example. you can go to three lineages of SC and each will give you a different name for the exact same technique. With such ambiguity, it can be hard to keep things in order.

In my experience, in the past, you were taught both the action and the name almost separetely as a means to semi-hide the intention of the actions. That way, anyone who is spying on you as you trained would not in theory know the actual use of that action. In the stories of legend, you often have people begin their training by simply learning to perform the forms first then the poetic terms are taught to them when the forms have can performed to a high standard in order to make sense of them.

How the style uses the poetic terms also depends on the school or style. While some are perhaps too poetic and truely poetic, some schools uses the poetic as a means to organise and reference the types of movements and actions. In the case of the animal forms of some schools, the name of the animal can sometimes directly describe both the type of hand position and the intention of the movement. The rest of the poetic would then describe the rest of the movement. In that way, once you get to a certain level of proficiency and independence from the forms, you can begin to be more freeform and begin to see and apply let's say a snake under water, as simply being an/any underarm/bridge type of move instead of just being the one as taught in the form.

In the case of black tiger steals heart. Are you sure you can't do it with the opposite side?

[HG]

just wondering, am I the only one here that's kinda sick of all these UFC and MMA hype???

Not sick of UFC or MMA just the atitude that seems to follow it. Within the scope of what they do there is a high level skill & conditioning. As a martial artist how can you not respect that.

My biggest pet peev is how intolerant they are of other martial arts outside the realm of MMA competiton. If you are practicing martial arts for any reason other than entering MMA competions - you are wrong.