chinese martial art in ufc

[bushido_man96]

I would like to know how the absorption of a kick works in Muay Thai.

[elbows_and_knees]

Wow, that would be brutal. I am not very familiar with Kung Fu, so could you explain this Gan sau movement to me? I don't quite get the gist of it from the pictures.

gan sau - "cutting hand" when used to block a kick, it's sometimes a double gan sau - using both hands. My WC experience is limited, so I'll let some of the WC guys explain the actual technique.

[elbows_and_knees]

I would like to know how the absorption of a kick works in Muay Thai.

depends on the kick and the target area...Ideally though, you don't want to be there. For example, if a tiip comes at you, either scoop it, parry it down or shuffle back so you are just out of its reach.

[bushido_man96]

I would like to know how the absorption of a kick works in Muay Thai.

depends on the kick and the target area...Ideally though, you don't want to be there. For example, if a tiip comes at you, either scoop it, parry it down or shuffle back so you are just out of its reach.

Ok, that makes a little sense. What exactly is a "tiip?" It makes sense that you don't want to be there, but how do you do this and still gain an angle or edge on the opponent?

[Traditional-Fist]

the type of strike is irrelevant, no?

NO it is not! It depends on the situation and how the opponent is protecting his throat.

if the person is moving, guarding and resisting, it will be equally hard to strike effectively.

That may depend on the person defending, and of course on the person who is doing the hitting.

it's actually easier for a grappler to pull off those strikes, because he would have control of his opponent before he tried them.

A. In Wing Chun (in most if not all major kung fu styles) you do not strike an opponent unless you have at least some kind a control on him.

And

B. There IS (as you know by now, through discussions in other threads), grappling in Wing Chun and most major kung fu styles.

In addition, there is way more to fighting than money or a medal.

Good, then lets take away the prize money and other financial contracts and see how many people would participate in events and for HOW LONG.

Non competitiors don't understand that though.

And that may have something to do with the attitude of many of those are who ARE competitors in such events.

I doubt anyone has that skill, actually.

I don't, and that is because I have had the privilege of studying under kung fu sifus who can do that. REAL kung fu sifus.

And unfortunately, nobody can prove it, as it would involve killing someone. Go figure...

Yes they can prove it. He can show you the power of his claw on another part of your body, without actually tearing any of your muscles. In the old days some masters use to tear of tree barks with their claws as practise.

You don't have to shoot someone dead to know if a new type of bullet is effective or not.

Now, that's not to say I disbelieve in a crushing grip.

Add to that a more power and a lot more technique and of course Chi and then you have something approaching a Tiger Claw tear.

[elbows_and_knees]

NO it is not! It depends on the situation and how the opponent is protecting his throat.

right, but what I was saying was that regardless of the type of strike, hitting a small, moving and protected target can be difficult.

A. In Wing Chun (in most if not all major kung fu styles) you do not strike an opponent unless you have at least some kind a control on him.

don't you have to do at least some initial striking to form a bridge so you can close the gap?

B. There IS (as you know by now, through discussions in other threads), grappling in Wing Chun and most major kung fu styles.

having grappling in a few forms and actually training it are different things. The grappling I have run across in CMA has been vastly inferior to what I've learned in judo and bjj, but rightfully so, as cma isn't a grappling style. On the same token, judo striking is inferior to cma striking. And I'm not talking about shuai chiao and chin na. That is indeed in most major systems in some aspect. I am referring to ground grappling. not ground fighting, which is different.

Good, then lets take away the prize money and other financial contracts and see how many people would participate in events and for HOW LONG.

dude... do you have any idea whatsoeever how big amateur fighting is? they don't get paid for that. And even at pro level, the pay is small, unless you are a big name. money really isn't the motivation.

And that may have something to do with the attitude of many of those are who ARE competitors in such events.

said competitors are among the most humble people that I know.

I doubt anyone has that skill, actually.

I don't, and that is because I have had the privilege of studying under kung fu sifus who can do that. REAL kung fu sifus.

I've trained with guys of great skill, like yang jwing ming. Regardless, I doubt they could rip a person's throat out, despite how conditioned their hands are. Have you ever SEEN them do this?

Yes they can prove it. He can show you the power of his claw on another part of your body, without actually tearing any of your muscles. In the old days some masters use to tear of tree barks with their claws as practise.

You don't have to shoot someone dead to know if a new type of bullet is effective or not.

you changed your scope. I'm not talking about tearing muscle. I'm talking about ripping their throat completely out. that's what you initially said.

[bushido_man96]

Quote: elbows_and_knees: having grappling in a few forms and actually training it are different things. The grappling I have run across in CMA has been vastly inferior to what I've learned in judo and bjj, but rightfully so, as cma isn't a grappling style. On the same token, judo striking is inferior to cma striking. And I'm not talking about shuai chiao and chin na. That is indeed in most major systems in some aspect. I am referring to ground grappling. not ground fighting, which is different.

I like the point that is made here, as it is very relevant to the reason that so many martial artists cross train today.

I do have a goofy question for you, however: what would you consider the major difference between ground grappling and ground fighting? Is it the intent? Is it the rules of sport? Just want a little clarity here, is all. Thanks.

[Traditional-Fist]

right, but what I was saying was that regardless of the type of strike, hitting a small, moving and protected target can be difficult.

In the days, years and centuries when kung fu was being developed, a small moving and protected target was still a difficult target to hit. It depends on how the exponent is trainned. Unfortunately, because of Mcdojo/kwoon phenomenon one is not very likely to come across authentic kung fu, and as a result some of the more complicated concepts of kung fu are not easily appreciated nowadays.

don't you have to do at least some initial striking to form a bridge so you can close the gap?

No you don't.

having grappling in a few forms and actually training it are different things.

Of course they are. Authentic kung fu schools usually train them.

The grappling I have run across in CMA has been vastly inferior to what I've learned in judo and bjj,

That is your personal experience and I respect that.

but rightfully so, as cma isn't a grappling style.

That is true as far as there is a tendency on striking in most cma but I know for sure that you have heard of dog boxing (kung fu) and I also know that you know that there is ground grappling in cma.

On the same token, judo striking is inferior to cma striking.

Agreed.

And I'm not talking about shuai chiao and chin na. That is indeed in most major systems in some aspect.

.....And they can also be classified as cma's. They are also present in many traditional cma's and are trainned with vigour much more than "outsiders" imagine.

I am referring to ground grappling. not ground fighting, which is different.

Kung fu contains both ground fighting and ground grappling (using Chin-na techniques amongst others).

dude...

?????

do you have any idea whatsoeever how big amateur fighting is? they don't get paid for that.

No? Not a dime? Please say more.....

And even at pro level, the pay is small, unless you are a big name. money really isn't the motivation.

Money is not a motivation for many street fighters either. When you come down to it for them it is basically the adrenaline rush and some perverted love of violence or both. Of course, it can also be martial research, on some level, that is.

]said competitors are among the most humble people that I know.

That is your experience and I respect that.

I've trained with guys of great skill, like yang jwing ming.

Wasn't that just a seminar?

Regardless, I doubt they could rip a person's throat out, despite how conditioned their hands are.

Your statement is based on your experience and understanding of CMA's and your own main practise in martial arts.

Have you ever SEEN them do this?

No I haven't asked my sifu to tear someones throat in front of me so that he can prove he can do it.

You don't have to shoot someone dead to know if a new type of bullet is effective or not.

you changed your scope. I'm not talking about tearing muscle. I'm talking about ripping their throat completely out. that's what you initially said.

I believe that my statement above that of yours says it all.

[TriangleMan]

it's actually easier for a grappler to pull off those strikes, because he would have control of his opponent before he tried them.

A. In Wing Chun (in most if not all major kung fu styles) you do not strike an opponent unless you have at least some kind a control on him.

And

B. There IS (as you know by now, through discussions in other threads), grappling in Wing Chun and most major kung fu styles.

To draw a comparison, there is also grappling in Muay Thai when you take into account that they're allowed to clinch up at the neck and throw knees. When a muay thai fighter fights someone who's a superior grappler than they are, the muay thai fighters knees are almost never seen. This is because the setup is more important that the attack, and since the other fighter is so much more skilled from the clinch, the muay thai fighter is never able to attain a dominant clinch with which to utilize his knees. So against another striker whos not trained in clinch work, it could possibly work- against someone else who knows what to do from there, its very unlikely.

In addition, there is way more to fighting than money or a medal.

Good, then lets take away the prize money and other financial contracts and see how many people would participate in events and for HOW LONG.

E&K said it all about how big amateur fighting is, and not only that but take into account all the tournaments helds by all martial arts. As far as professional fighters are concerned, they barely make money at all. King of the Cage is probably the largest NHB tournament in the US after the UFC. Typical pay for fighters in those events runs about $300- $500 a fight. Championship belt holders can make as much as $4000, which is quite pathetic.

Non competitiors don't understand that though.

And that may have something to do with the attitude of many of those are who ARE competitors in such events.

Professional fighters are no different that any other class of people. There will be those who are cocky and arrogant and those who are humble. Those that are arrogant often have a good reason to be so- its not that they know they're tough (since I hear people say that all the time) but its that they've actually proven it.

Those that are humble often times just choose to be so. What will often times frustrate both the humble and the arrogant of those fighters is listening to those who can claim expertise over them when they've had almost no fighting experience whatsoever and are unwilling to back up their claims.

I doubt anyone has that skill' date=' actually.[/quote']

I don't, and that is because I have had the privilege of studying under kung fu sifus who can do that. REAL kung fu sifus.

Bear in mind that Im not saying that you or your sifu arent skilled or that you may fall into this category, but I hear that all the time- people who have the "real" kung fu. The problem I have with such things is, once again, people are unwilling to back up their statements (using excuses such as honor, loyalty, deadliness, etc.) and beyond their talk have no evidence with which to support their claims (except for loyal practitioners). No amount of belief makes something a fact.

And unfortunately, nobody can prove it, as it would involve killing someone. Go figure...

Yes they can prove it. He can show you the power of his claw on another part of your body, without actually tearing any of your muscles. In the old days some masters use to tear of tree barks with their claws as practise.

You don't have to shoot someone dead to know if a new type of bullet is effective or not.

Well, thats because we've actually seen bullets kill people, so there is evidence to support that. Once again, to draw on another analogy, there are breaking competitions all the time showing people crashing through many blocks of concrete and brick, something a pro boxer couldnt probably do, yet the pro boxer will still ko more people.

Now, that's not to say I disbelieve in a crushing grip.

Add to that a more power and a lot more technique and of course Chi and then you have something approaching a Tiger Claw tear.

Chi has never been scientifically proven and is therefore not presentable as evidence.

[elbows_and_knees]

Quote: elbows_and_knees: having grappling in a few forms and actually training it are different things. The grappling I have run across in CMA has been vastly inferior to what I've learned in judo and bjj, but rightfully so, as cma isn't a grappling style. On the same token, judo striking is inferior to cma striking. And I'm not talking about shuai chiao and chin na. That is indeed in most major systems in some aspect. I am referring to ground grappling. not ground fighting, which is different.

I like the point that is made here, as it is very relevant to the reason that so many martial artists cross train today.

I do have a goofy question for you, however: what would you consider the major difference between ground grappling and ground fighting? Is it the intent? Is it the rules of sport? Just want a little clarity here, is all. Thanks.

the inclusion of striking. the ground fighting I've seen in the TMA that I've trained has been mainly stiking from the ground, with the intent of getting back to my feet by incapacitating them, knocking them down or just gaining enough space from them that I can safely stand. Ground grappling is part of what happens when you are both on the ground. TMA, IME tends to address you standing and opponent on the ground, or you on the ground and opponent standing, but doesn't have a lot of focus on both parties being on the ground.