Thinking of taking up grappling

[UseoForce]

I currently practice Karate and I'm just wondering if it would be in my best interest to cross-train in a grappling art, whether it be Jiu-Jitsu, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Sambo, Amateur Wrestling or whatever. I don't plan on competing in MMA competitions (not at the moment anyway), but grappling looks like it could help in a sticky situation. Anyone like to offer advice?

Self defence is about awareness and being pre-emptive. Grappling, especially japanese jiu-jutsu(contains strikes also) would compliment your karate training and open up certain techniques and ideas you might not have seen before.

Otherwise, you'll get taken down by a grappler and he will beat the tar out of you, and you will be helpless.

In a "true" self defence situation your chances of facing a competent grappler are very low. In an ego driven "lets see whos tougher" type situation facing a grappler would be more likely.

I'd disagree with both points, Cross.

Japanese Jiu-jitsu (which I have a lot of experience in; Hapkido is about 50% daito ryu) is not "grappling" in the sense that wrestling, judo, sambo, and BJJ are. JJJ is largely a set of responses to particular situations. You grab my wrist, I do this. It's not bad, but a real fight isn't so linear. Wrestling, Judo, BJJ, and Sambo teach you how chaotic a fight is and you learn how to apply techniques against a RESISTING partner. That is why in challenge matches, Judokas DESTROYED Jiu-jitsu guys. JJJ techniques are nice to have if you have the oppurtunity. I like them. But I know I can always fall back on my BJJ/MMA/Other parts of Combat Hapkido if they do not work.

Second, there are PLENTY of great grapplers on the streets. For starters, what two sports are found in high schools around America (I can't speak for Australia)? Football (American) and wrestling. These guys know exactly how to slam you to the ground and are comfortable with the idea of holding on to and controling another person. This experience doesn't just leave after high school.

And, let's not forget the fact that SERIOUS fights will hit the dirt 90% of the time, regardless of the combatant's skill.

[alsey]

i don't think its fair to say JJJ does not involve fighting against a resisting partner, its just that its not common in a lot of modern schools. certainly JJJ practiced traditionally is full of randori. if you ever read anything about jujitsu before it became popular, or even more so when the samurai were still active, the training was pretty brutal.

in my jujitsu dojo, the more senior students are always doing randori. us lower grades aren't allowed to yet because apparently its too dangerous, so we do that crappy set responses stuff.

[UseoForce]

i don't think its fair to say JJJ does not involve fighting against a resisting partner, its just that its not common in a lot of modern schools. certainly JJJ practiced traditionally is full of randori. if you ever read anything about jujitsu before it became popular, or even more so when the samurai were still active, the training was pretty brutal.

in my jujitsu dojo, the more senior students are always doing randori. us lower grades aren't allowed to yet because apparently its too dangerous, so we do that crappy set responses stuff.

Exactly, that's my point. That's the paradox of martial effectiveness that most people don't understand. You're not allowed to do randori becuase it is too dangerous in JJJ. However, people training in judo, wrestling, sambo, or BJJ will consistently defeat JJJ guys even though the aforementioned arts' techniques are totally safe to practice with.

[Anbu Alex]

well the reason higher ranks do randori and lower ranks dont is because thay dont want people to get hurt and they have a better understanding of the techs so they known how to take the fall.... im not totally agreed that because other grappling arts have randori that they will always lose sometimes the best ppl doing even spar against other arts and randori is a controlled situation where as a real comfrotation is uncontrolible im not knock randori i just say to each their own

[UseoForce]

That's what I've been saying. If your techniques are to dangerous to practice in randori or a similar realistic setting, then you will probably not be able to apply them in a realistic situation.

[Anbu Alex]

well i dont do randori much but is street application and even randori its self ive been successful so i dont think its neccessary i know ppl is the same boat as me but for some ppl they may need it i dunno everyone is different and learn differently

[UseoForce]

well i dont do randori much but is street application and even randori its self ive been successful so i dont think its neccessary i know ppl is the same boat as me but for some ppl they may need it i dunno everyone is different and learn differently

I'm not saying it's not possible but you don't want to trust your life to it. And I'm willing to bet that your "street application" was a less than life or death encounter, true?

[ps1]

That's what I've been saying. If your techniques are to dangerous to practice in randori or a similar realistic setting, then you will probably not be able to apply them in a realistic situation.

I agree 100% here. This alone is why Jigoro Kano is one of the most genius martial artists to have ever walked the earth. Probably an even match to his genius was Helio Gracie.

Kano removed all techniques that required force against force from Jujitsu. Then he removed all techniques that could not be practiced safely by students of all levels. Now you have students able to train at 110%, using 110% with a diminished likelyhood of injury. The only consession was that if you were in a bad situation, you need only concede by tapping out.

While Kano became extremely proficient at the throwing aspects, when Meada brought Judo and Jiujitsu to Brazil and the Gracie family, they became just as adept at the ground work. Again, students of all skill levels are able to go at 110% and not get injured.

There are extremely dangerous things in both situations. Take the basic hip throw for instance. Simply change the timing of the throw, or execute on a person who doesn't know how to fall, and the opponent can land on their head...very hazardous.

How about the Rear Naked Choke, extremely effective, you can make the person pass out or simply break the neck.

In combat, when your sympathetic nervous system kicks in, your fine motor skills tend to go down the drain. So things like wrist locks and eye jabs and the like become more difficult by 100%. However, things you have already practiced in a high stress situation are easier to do. This is fact. Ask any police tactics or military tactics expert. They will tell you the same thing. It's all about your training being able to duplicate your environmental conditions. This is why what UseoForce has been point on in these posts.

As for the original thread. Go for it. Ameture wrestling will be plenty. Probably the best thing you'll learn is how to recognize an thwart a take down attempt. This will keep you on your feet where you're comfortable and able to strike at your best. Plus you'll have the opportunity to really feel what giving 110% truly means! You always think you've done it until you go up against good wrestlers. They just don't know how to slow down!

[bushido_man96]

I agree with UseoForce on the resisting opponent applications. When I get into a tangle with an inmate (heaven forbid), I know that the static practice that I have done in the past will not help me much.

Judo practitioners have the right idea. I would rather learn all of the safer techniques, and be able to practice full tilt at a low rank, and then learn to apply the harder, more dangerous stuff at a higher rank, with skilled partners. The training would improve 10 fold. This is very similar to high school/college wrestling. Very safe, and they are some of the best athletes in the world.

[UseoForce]

Good post, my point exactly.